What a dick head!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chrusty1
  • Start date Start date
I think you're reading it somewhat selectively.

You're missing out the bit about "vessels only able to navigate within the fairway".

I would contend that once past the first red and green buoys, numbers 1 and 2, and out into the Solent the Ferry is not restricted to any fairway, regardless of the definition.

What suprises me about the incident is that I have had more than a few close encounters with Red Funnel ferries in that part of the Solent, and have always found them to give way obviously and early. What was different this time?
 
I have to travel to IoW twice a week and often join the Commander on the Red Jet or Master on the Red Funnel (why the difference in titles?). I have learnt a lot. The Voith units are very manoeuvrable but the Ferries were stretched a few years back and had an extra deck fitted. This increased their windage by 19% but no allowance was made for the additional power needed. Thus at slow speeds in strong current or wind they can become less easy to manage. The ebb outside Cowes runs inshore two hours early and from the bridge you can see the tide line clearly - what is interesting is how much these boats are affected. The cross tide in the Medina means they line up on no " buoy and crab in. Quite impressive in a SW wind when the tide is taking them one way and the wind the other.
The skippers have been universally courteous and are very yacht friendly. There was (I was lead to understand) an individual who was more gung-ho but he is no longer employed.
The Jets at 38Kn can stop in their two of their own lengths but they try to avoid this as they dont like digging out everyones' teeth from the seat in front! They are supposed to keep in the main channel too.
Just my pennyworth.
 
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You're missing out the bit about "vessels only able to navigate within the fairway".



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The regulations force him to navigate only within the fairway.


However lescargot has thrown another spanner in the works in introducing another abnormality in that a third phrase comes into the regs

'fairway approach'

My admiralty chart does not show the additional term but lescargot is local and I assume he has more detailed charts than my Admiralty folio issues.

as always I agree I could be wrong and my posts are supposed to be contributions toward getting to a solution .
 
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You are confusing Cowes Harbour, Cowes Roads, the Fairway and Fairway Approaches which are all separately defined.

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No what is separately defined is

Main fairway


'main' fairway is not mentioned in the bylaws , only the fairway as marked on all our charts.

I read up on this 10 years ago.

as a small boat wanting to keep out the way i looked for a passage outside Southampton regs and 150 m gaps and cowes HM regulations.

Thats why loads of boats plane from prince consort to guarand and will not deviate from track , thats about the only place you will see me getting close to other boats.........sorry guys /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

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Your memory must be going then Pete, read up on it again - all the interpretation is done for you in the byelaws under the heading "Interpretation".

It even tells you that the bit between the purple lines is the fairway "approaches" and then goes on to define where the fairway (referring to it as fairway, main fairway and navigable fairway) starts and finishes. There is no gap.
 
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. Some years ago I was 3rd Mate on Watch ... 330,000 Ton tanker fully laden going up the channel without lightering - not a task we relished - but that was co. orders.
So how many would stand on to that vessel ... big but low in water ... seemingly in deep water of English Channel ... Well I can tell you that the idiot who did, and called me up by VHF demanding that I alter course AND that he was racing ... got specific travel instructions. CG monitoring VHF traffic in the Channel picked up on it and gave me stick for my language, but also told the yacht to grow up and stop being a fool.
Yachts draft ? 6ft maybe ? My ships draft over 75ft ... restricted to keeping in suitable water and later the lanes ... :

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Yes, but if you obeyed the colregs and displayed the constrained by draft signals (black cylinder by day or 3 all round vertical reds by night) then there would be doubt who was stand on. So - did you???
 
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...However lescargot has thrown another spanner in the works in introducing another abnormality in that a third phrase comes into the regs

'fairway approach'

My admiralty chart does not show the additional term but lescargot is local and I assume he has more detailed charts than my Admiralty folio issues...

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No more detailed charts. "Fairway Approach" comes from the same Cowes Byelaws that you are selectively quoting from - you need to read them all, not just the bits that you think support your misinterpretation.
 
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...What suprises me about the incident is that I have had more than a few close encounters with Red Funnel ferries in that part of the Solent, and have always found them to give way obviously and early. What was different this time?

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Likewise. I wonder if there is a new skipper. I know the attitude of Wightlink changed a few years ago when they employed skippers from different parts who had a more "continental" approach to small boats.
 
Too late, /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
We baffled the jury about 3 hours ago, the judge is late for golf, my client walks /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
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Too late, /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
We baffled the jury about 3 hours ago, the judge is late for golf, my client walks /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

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No... you made the judge late for golf and he has just banged you up to purge your contempt /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Between DAKA and Chrusty1 this thread should run for a record 1000 responses. From previous threads DAKA wants all sailing boats to be the give way vessel in all circumstances.

What we all agree is that Red Funnel Ferries are normally Professional.

Cowes HM is investigating this incident.

Its caused us all to reflect on what the Col Regs say and the Harbour by-laws.
 
Mr X Yacht thinks:

Yee Ha, good speed, I will easily pass in front of......oh hold on, wheres the wind gone? Dammit, the damn ferries stolen my wind......oh my god, keep going, keep going, keep going, just a little further.......jeez, hope nobody gets that on youtube.

There you are, investigation over, look at the wind direction.

He wont do that again. Mental note....keep out of the way of upwind large objects, moving or not.
 
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DAKA wants all sailing boats to be the give way vessel in all circumstances.



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Trying to keep my nose out but couldnt let that one go /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

No not my interpretation of col regs at all.
In open waters sail remains the stand on vessel.

It is a sad reflection of todays sailors that most never actually get to see the horizon as they dont venture outside the solent which is in the main a connected series of channels and fairways governed by harbour authority By-laws.
Perhaps one way to clarify the situation would be to add a By-law which says all vessels navigating in or through a channel or fairway will proceed with their engines running.

Sailing, don't you just love it to death ?

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif




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Yes it contained several assumptions including the ferries speed of 15 knots and discounted the ferries size.

If there wasnt a wind shadow there would have been a significant switch in wind direction.
 
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the solent which is in the main a connected series of channels and fairways governed by harbour authority By-laws.

[/ QUOTE ]What is a channel and fairway to some (ie large shipping) is open water to all but a few leisure craft.

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Perhaps one way to clarify the situation would be to add a By-law which says all vessels navigating in or through a channel or fairway

[/ QUOTE ] Channel or fairway to who's definition? Are you trying to turn us all into Stinkies?!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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What is a channel and fairway to some (ie large shipping) is open water to all but a few leisure craft.



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The By laws of QHM, Southampton water and Cowes all define these.

Lescargot has argued that Fairway does not include 'approach' Fairway.


It would make sense wouldnt it if you just sail outside the channels and when you need to cross a channel you start your engine, you continue to sail but the engine is their if you need it such as an emergency stop, speed up, becalmed from wind shadow, or just to help you tack a little quicker.


Sailing, don't you just love it to death ?







. <span style="color:blue"> QHM says

Avoid sailing in the commercial shipping channels, especially in poor visibility. Obey Rule 9 of the Collision Regulations(ColRegs) for conduct in narrow channels by keeping to the starboard side of the channel and crossing only when this does not impede the passage of a large vessel that can safely navigate only within the narrow channel.

Do not underestimate the speed of ships. If your boat is slow, allow sufficient time to take effective evasive action in the vicinity of large ships.
</span>


The last time I posted a scuttleburk complained at my phrase of a starboards side to a channel.

QHM uses the same phrase !
 
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