ffiill
Well-Known Member
Big recruitment drive on at moment to for workers to help rebuild Christchurch-fast track visas etc.
-and NZ can unsettle your soul-Im somewhere half way beween metaphorically speaking!
Westerly Pageant on a trailer - hypothetical
- Thread starter dylanwinter
- Start date
-and NZ can unsettle your soul-Im somewhere half way beween metaphorically speaking!
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
William_H
Well-Known Member
Trailer dunking
I have always dunked my trailer to launch and recover the boat. It is certainly (around here) far cheaper than hiring a crane. Yes of course it needs extra maintenance to service bearings brakes etc after a dunking but not too many hours work. As the trailer must be stored outdoors (for most of us) it is going to get wet in the rain often so the chassis of the trailer is going to suffer anyway. Mine is now 32 years old and has had the back end and draw bar replaced but is still going strong. Lots of grease old engine oil and maintenance.
good luck olewill
I have always dunked my trailer to launch and recover the boat. It is certainly (around here) far cheaper than hiring a crane. Yes of course it needs extra maintenance to service bearings brakes etc after a dunking but not too many hours work. As the trailer must be stored outdoors (for most of us) it is going to get wet in the rain often so the chassis of the trailer is going to suffer anyway. Mine is now 32 years old and has had the back end and draw bar replaced but is still going strong. Lots of grease old engine oil and maintenance.
good luck olewill
bendyone
Well-Known Member
I towed my Hunter 26 from Plymouth to Bicester each year. I used a 7.5 ton vehicle but even a few years ago fuel was £200 + crane. Didn't enjoy the drive either, but it was good to have the boat at home for the winter. Total length of tow around 50 feet which makes it interesting.
We have a friend who tows his catering units with a transit 3.5 ton tow weight.
We have a friend who tows his catering units with a transit 3.5 ton tow weight.
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neale
Well-Known Member
Dylan
This may have already been said, if so apologies.
Car trailers typically are only rated to around 2000kgs max. Some of the cheaper ones in your ebay link are only single axle so would probably be a max of 1500kgs gross, maybe 1800kgs at a push dependig upon the axle etc.
A Westerly Pageant will weigh around 2000kgs at a minimum I would say, so with a suitable trailer weighing approx 500kgs, you would need a trailer with a 2500kgs gross weight as an absolute minimum, and a vehicle capable of towing it, which really means a 4x4 or commercial vehicle.
This may have already been said, if so apologies.
Car trailers typically are only rated to around 2000kgs max. Some of the cheaper ones in your ebay link are only single axle so would probably be a max of 1500kgs gross, maybe 1800kgs at a push dependig upon the axle etc.
A Westerly Pageant will weigh around 2000kgs at a minimum I would say, so with a suitable trailer weighing approx 500kgs, you would need a trailer with a 2500kgs gross weight as an absolute minimum, and a vehicle capable of towing it, which really means a 4x4 or commercial vehicle.
Seajet
...
Dylan,
I know you're a bit of an engineer on the quiet, so will have your own thoughts re. dunking trailers in salt water ( sorry olewill, I know you're more of an engineer than I'll ever be, maybe I'm just a cheapskate ! ).
Also, if it comes to a race / passage making comparison beteen a Pageant and a Leisure 23, I'd have the Pageant any day.
A chap at my club used to have a Leisure 23; on meeting him we were on a broad reach & he was beating, I called 'hows it going Dave ?' and my crew whispered to me " sideways ! "...
I know you're a bit of an engineer on the quiet, so will have your own thoughts re. dunking trailers in salt water ( sorry olewill, I know you're more of an engineer than I'll ever be, maybe I'm just a cheapskate ! ).
Also, if it comes to a race / passage making comparison beteen a Pageant and a Leisure 23, I'd have the Pageant any day.
A chap at my club used to have a Leisure 23; on meeting him we were on a broad reach & he was beating, I called 'hows it going Dave ?' and my crew whispered to me " sideways ! "...
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
As I see it...
Pageant- 2000kg, but probably the best sailer of all those mentioned
Leisure 23- 1800kg, has a saildrive- is that a problem?
Sailer 23- 1000kg, not great reports on sailing ability
Pageant- 2000kg, but probably the best sailer of all those mentioned
Leisure 23- 1800kg, has a saildrive- is that a problem?
Sailer 23- 1000kg, not great reports on sailing ability
Avocet
Well-Known Member
Yes, still legal to build your own trailer, but by (I think!) the end of October this year, VOSA will be introducing an "Individual Vehicle Approval" test for trailers, so best get a move on!
A good summary of the technical requirements can be found in the Inspection Manual here:
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/Transport_files/127_IVA_O1O4_Inspection_Manual_0311.pdf
As things currently stand, they'd need to comply with the UK's Construction and Use Regs (assuming use in the UK?) There are a variety of those, but the braking requirements are the most complex. Under C&U, the brakes would need to comply with the requirements of the EC Directive on brakes (the trailer part of it). That would (in effect) outlaw things like Ray's Transit-derived trailer over here - not because the brakes were inefficient (they may or may not be!), but because you'd have no proof of compliance with the trailer braking requirements of the Directive (they were originally type approved on a Transit, after all)!
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VicS
Well-Known Member
Looks like my trailer will be for the scrappie then. Brakes were for Minis !
ProDave
Well-Known Member
The law does not apply retrospectively.
I still have an old luggage trailer, built out of an old builders compressor trailer, with spring overun brakes. It wouldn't meet current requirements, but there's no need to stop using it.
P.S last year when my car went for it's MOT I was told that from this year the trailer wiring on the car would be tested on the MOT test. But this year when I got there, it turns out only modern cars with 13 pin trailer sockets need to be tested. Older cars like mine with the 7 pin towing electric sockets still don't need testing.
VicS
Well-Known Member
Thank goodness ... on both counts.
Its amazing how quickly posts on the forum "work"
After saying my trailer will be for the scrappie I went outside.
Within minutes two scap collectors came up the road!
mickywillis
Well-Known Member
Dylan,
How about this for a ready to go package?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/22-foot-T...ng_Goods_Sailing_Boats_ET&hash=item231b8a8366
Best of both worlds, with bilge keels for drying out, swing keel for beating, a ready made trailer and an engine you can take home to work on!!
Go on, stick in a bid, you may be lucky!!
How about this for a ready to go package?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/22-foot-T...ng_Goods_Sailing_Boats_ET&hash=item231b8a8366
Best of both worlds, with bilge keels for drying out, swing keel for beating, a ready made trailer and an engine you can take home to work on!!
Go on, stick in a bid, you may be lucky!!
ProDave
Well-Known Member
That's certainly one I would be looking at if I didn't already have a boat (and if it was closer to me)
The lifting keel with a keel box in the cabin and a fixed (drop leaf) table on top of the keel box is almost identical to what I have in my boat.
the raised hatch might be a blessing and a curse. Nice to have a tiny bit of standing room inside, but might obstruct your view when sailing. at least it forces a high tabernacle for the mast, so you should be able to contrive an easy mast lowering and raising system while afloat.
Like my boat, it appears to be an uncommon make. I still haven't figured if that's a good or a bad thing.
I would also add, the general construction of the trailer looks like it might have scope for cutting a "slot" in the floor of the trailer, to allow the swing keel to be lowered while the boat is on the trailer. It might need some welding to make up a frame if the axles cross at the critical point, to form a box around the opening in the trailer. As you may have noticed in other discussions, I and others think it important to be able to service a lifting keel properly while the boat is out on it's trailer.
If it's anything like mine, you can unbolt the table top and get access into the top of the keel box.
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ProDave
Well-Known Member
I do hope you didn't sell it to them.
Billows
Well-Known Member
http://yachts.apolloduck.com/boats.phtml?id=84&mi=6783
How about this?No engine worries,great sailer,lift keel for the mud.Buy a good trailer and keep it in driveway.
How about this?No engine worries,great sailer,lift keel for the mud.Buy a good trailer and keep it in driveway.
Applescruffs
Well-Known Member
Some sums
when towing you must check the overall 'train weight' permissable with the vehicle. ie; van + load + trailer+ driver +fuel etc..etc.
Based on a 260swb Transit The GVM Gross Vehicle Mass is 2600kg, the kerb weight of the van is 1684kg, the max GTM (Gross train mass - the total permissible all-up weight of a rigid vehicle together with trailer and load is 3500kg,
3500 - 1684 = 1816kg
trailer of at least 750kg, leaves you with less than 1 tonne trailer load.
So check the GTM...it's in the handbook or on the VIN, (log book)...
Also check your loading balance.......empty van + big boat on the back....makes for an interesting trip...!
I'm remembering something about the tow should be no more than 80% of the vehicle weight...so to increase stability you put more weight in the van...this of course reduces the weight available for the tow...also choose a rear wheel drive van for preference etc..etc...and so it goes on.
But don't take my word for it, I'm just remebering what I was taught when I took my CPC (Transport Managers) exam many years ago ...it may well have changed, as ever I stand to be corrected.
Also consider the fuel consumption when towing.... Transits generally get about 25mpg.(2.3 diesel),.....I reckon you could half that when towing.
Take into account the rental of the van...that is if you can get one with a tow bar.,and unless you can borrow Alan & Stewy's van it all gets a bit expensive.
I guess that what I'm saying is that this needs to be checked out very carefully, not only to keep within the law....A white Transit van pulling over two and half Tonnes of boat and trailer behind it is very stuff that the man from VOSA's dreams are made of, but also to be safe...badly matched vehicles and tows are an accident waiting to happen....seen it!
Still...looking on the bright side...isn't it good that the evenings are getting longer?
PS: check your licence just to make sure that you are entitled to drive this sort of set-up.
In a hypothetical sort of way that is!
Cheers.
when towing you must check the overall 'train weight' permissable with the vehicle. ie; van + load + trailer+ driver +fuel etc..etc.
Based on a 260swb Transit The GVM Gross Vehicle Mass is 2600kg, the kerb weight of the van is 1684kg, the max GTM (Gross train mass - the total permissible all-up weight of a rigid vehicle together with trailer and load is 3500kg,
3500 - 1684 = 1816kg
trailer of at least 750kg, leaves you with less than 1 tonne trailer load.
So check the GTM...it's in the handbook or on the VIN, (log book)...
Also check your loading balance.......empty van + big boat on the back....makes for an interesting trip...!
I'm remembering something about the tow should be no more than 80% of the vehicle weight...so to increase stability you put more weight in the van...this of course reduces the weight available for the tow...also choose a rear wheel drive van for preference etc..etc...and so it goes on.
But don't take my word for it, I'm just remebering what I was taught when I took my CPC (Transport Managers) exam many years ago ...it may well have changed, as ever I stand to be corrected.
Also consider the fuel consumption when towing.... Transits generally get about 25mpg.(2.3 diesel),.....I reckon you could half that when towing.
Take into account the rental of the van...that is if you can get one with a tow bar.,and unless you can borrow Alan & Stewy's van it all gets a bit expensive.
I guess that what I'm saying is that this needs to be checked out very carefully, not only to keep within the law....A white Transit van pulling over two and half Tonnes of boat and trailer behind it is very stuff that the man from VOSA's dreams are made of, but also to be safe...badly matched vehicles and tows are an accident waiting to happen....seen it!
Still...looking on the bright side...isn't it good that the evenings are getting longer?
PS: check your licence just to make sure that you are entitled to drive this sort of set-up.
In a hypothetical sort of way that is!
Cheers.
William_H
Well-Known Member
Boat trailers
A few comments here based on my own 21fter. The keel in mine lifts right to the roof. That is a real pediment to movement to the front bunk area though the area aft of the keel is clear and very roomy. Passage from back to front is possible for smaller person but less so for an old large non flexible git.
I found it very practical to roll the boat back on the trailer about 600mm to a point where the drop keel comes down aft of the axle. I need to support the back of the trailer to stop it all tipping back. I can drop the keel about half way for cleaning a/f etc. I can do the top half from inside. This also exposes previously covered areas for cleaning and painting.
The vertical drop keel is very efficient in the water coming out of a flush boat bottom. However it is susceptible to damage from running aground. The trailing edge gets crushed in the back of the keel slot. I minimise this by holding the back of the keel down with a bolt through the cb case. This stops the back kicking up so lessens impact of trailing edge. The bolt gets bent occasionally.
In all cases of running aground I leave the keel down and heel the boat to reduce draft rather than lift the cb. It takes some minutes to raise the cb 100kg with halyard winch. I would probably drift further aground on a lee shore as I raised the cb. olewill
A few comments here based on my own 21fter. The keel in mine lifts right to the roof. That is a real pediment to movement to the front bunk area though the area aft of the keel is clear and very roomy. Passage from back to front is possible for smaller person but less so for an old large non flexible git.
I found it very practical to roll the boat back on the trailer about 600mm to a point where the drop keel comes down aft of the axle. I need to support the back of the trailer to stop it all tipping back. I can drop the keel about half way for cleaning a/f etc. I can do the top half from inside. This also exposes previously covered areas for cleaning and painting.
The vertical drop keel is very efficient in the water coming out of a flush boat bottom. However it is susceptible to damage from running aground. The trailing edge gets crushed in the back of the keel slot. I minimise this by holding the back of the keel down with a bolt through the cb case. This stops the back kicking up so lessens impact of trailing edge. The bolt gets bent occasionally.
In all cases of running aground I leave the keel down and heel the boat to reduce draft rather than lift the cb. It takes some minutes to raise the cb 100kg with halyard winch. I would probably drift further aground on a lee shore as I raised the cb. olewill
Searush
Well-Known Member
Have you not got an anchor to stop you going further aground? Row it out 50m & drop it in deeper water is the standard procedure most people might use. Then lifting the keel makes life easy.
Corribee Boy
Well-Known Member
Applescruffs,
The things you quote are possibly right for a smaller transit, but 350 transit vans have a GTM of 6000 kg, which is why you see them towing small excavators, and corribees, without being stopped by the wheeltappers and shunters. (touch wood). Oddly, the biggest problem with legality is the rating of the tyres - the heaviest I can get is 745 KG per tyre which is a bit tight with boat, trailer, and piggybank launching trolley to prevent dunking the main trailer. I find once something's been dunked in saltwater, no amount of rinsing stops future rust.
The things you quote are possibly right for a smaller transit, but 350 transit vans have a GTM of 6000 kg, which is why you see them towing small excavators, and corribees, without being stopped by the wheeltappers and shunters. (touch wood). Oddly, the biggest problem with legality is the rating of the tyres - the heaviest I can get is 745 KG per tyre which is a bit tight with boat, trailer, and piggybank launching trolley to prevent dunking the main trailer. I find once something's been dunked in saltwater, no amount of rinsing stops future rust.
Grajan
Well-Known Member
I recently had a my Pageant towed from the lakes to Scotland The company who carried out the job were very concerned that their vehicle would not be of the correct weight ratio to tow the boat and trailer as the all up weight of trailer and boat weighed in excess of 3 ton and would require a LARGE 4X4 to tow it
. however their big 4litre?Toyota just fitted the bill but he reckoned he was glad he didnt have to carry out an emergency stop!!. I believe it would be illegal to tow a Pageant on a public highway with a Transit
. however their big 4litre?Toyota just fitted the bill but he reckoned he was glad he didnt have to carry out an emergency stop!!. I believe it would be illegal to tow a Pageant on a public highway with a Transit