Westerly Pageant on a trailer - hypothetical

[Corribee Boy]

Do you have a source for that capacity figure?

Only the manufacturer's plate, Rob, - and the van isn't in the yard this evening for me to double check. The landrover 110 will tow 3.5 tonnes with a Gross Train Mass of 5.25 T. The 3.5 tonne transit will tow the same, but with about half a tonne more GTM.

I think the 3.5 tonne trailer limit is probably to do with the need for a more sophisticated breaking system rather than the vehicle capacity. If you're running a commercial vehicle with this sort of load you are in tachograph territory, if you're more than 50km from home, but if it's your own boat you should be alright - though the hire people might not like it.

I tend to do as Dylan suggests, and empty the boat into the tow vehicle. The Corribee does about a thousand miles a year, and, touch wood, no dramas.

 

[ProDave]

The trouble with a car transporter is that the bow of the boat may be overhanging the towing hitch when the load and trailer are "balanced" to give an acceptable nose weight.

Then the bow whacks the back of the van! Seen someone try to do that ! (He would probably have done it with a pick up truck then the bow could have over hung the back of the truck)

If you move the boat back it lifts the back wheels of the van off the ground.

I had exactly the same problem with my boat on the boat trailer that it came with.

As it was set up, there was no nose weight whatsoever. and it towed really badly. You couldn't go over 50 without it starting to snake.

I put this all right last summer while the boat was in the water. I re jigged the trailer by moving both axles back 6 inches, so in effect moving the boat 6" further forward on the trailer. Now I have some nose weight and it's perfectly stable towing over 60 mph

The other issue I had was my trailer is quite high, and being twin axle, it likes to sit with the drawbar level. Trouble was that put the trailers hitch 6" higher than the towball on my car. I solved that with an "upside down" drop plate. I now have two towballs on the back of my car, which gets some strange comments sometimes.

If you are planning to hire a "car trailer" you might want so discuss with the hire firm what their view is, when the "car" you are transporting on it, turns out to be a boat.

Re a hired towcar, I think it's generally harder to hire any vehicle with a towbar. I know there's a firm SDS or something similar that hire 4WD pickups and Land rovers.

But seriously, if you are proposing to move your own boat on a trailer 2 or 3 times a year, I would personally not want to be without my own trailer, and my own towcar capable of towing it.

 

[Kelpie]

Only the manufacturer's plate, Rob, - and the van isn't in the yard this evening for me to double check. The landrover 110 will tow 3.5 tonnes with a Gross Train Mass of 5.25 T. The 3.5 tonne transit will tow the same, but with about half a tonne more GTM.

I think the 3.5 tonne trailer limit is probably to do with the need for a more sophisticated breaking system rather than the vehicle capacity. If you're running a commercial vehicle with this sort of load you are in tachograph territory, if you're more than 50km from home, but if it's your own boat you should be alright - though the hire people might not like it.

I tend to do as Dylan suggests, and empty the boat into the tow vehicle. The Corribee does about a thousand miles a year, and, touch wood, no dramas.

Thanks, very interesting to know- I can hire a Transit locally, but no 4x4s other than a Hilux (which, surprisingly, is rated at only 2500kg).
Do all Transits have this sort of towing capacity, or is it only RWD and certain engines?

 

[William_H]

New Zealand

I do not plan to move it that often

And if I could leave the trailer under it in the garden - I have a job in new Zealand next winter for four months - leaving the boat unused swinging on a mooring some-where or clocking up yard fees would be expensive

being able to bring the boat home - or even to pay for some-one else to tow it home - would save me some money

I would pay to have it craned on and off the trailer into and out of the water

When the boat is not on the trailer I could put the trailer in the garage so that it would not deteriorate

Dylan

Hi Dylan I would respectfully suggest that you wait till after your New Zealand trip before buying another boat. These places have a way of unsettling a soul. You might want to stay. Although all the New Zealanders seem to be moving to Oz for work. good luck olewill

 

[BAtoo]

I do not plan to move it that often

And if I could leave the trailer under it in the garden - I have a job in new Zealand next winter for four months - leaving the boat unused swinging on a mooring some-where or clocking up yard fees would be expensive

being able to bring the boat home - or even to pay for some-one else to tow it home - would save me some money

I would pay to have it craned on and off the trailer into and out of the water

When the boat is not on the trailer I could put the trailer in the garage so that it would not deteriorate

Dylan

I'm not sure where you intend to lay up but as a guide Suffolk Yacht Harbour is about £750 for a 7m boat for a whole winter in a marina berth, this is one of the most expensive on the river & in the area - there will be several cheaper than this....
I think by the time you have sold the Slug, bought another boat & trailer, hired a tow vehicle, diesel, craned out and in, etc. it's going to cost at least that.......

 

[dylanwinter]

possibly

I'm not sure where you intend to lay up but as a guide Suffolk Yacht Harbour is about £750 for a 7m boat for a whole winter in a marina berth, this is one of the most expensive on the river & in the area - there will be several cheaper than this....
I think by the time you have sold the Slug, bought another boat & trailer, hired a tow vehicle, diesel, craned out and in, etc. it's going to cost at least that.......

you might be right but


crane out £50

van vire £100

diesel - maybe another £100

so for £250 I can bring the overheads for the boat to zero by bringing it home

as a freelance.... once a financial drought starts there is no knowing when it will end. BBC is currently absorbing 20 per cent cuts.... so at my age I expect to drop completely off their books


I confess that I am in a bit of a dilemma - I really want to keep KTL going - but working out how to make that happen given the modest cash flow from the project means that I have to work out a way of setting it up on a sustainable basis. That means that I have to be in a position to mothball the project when cash flows plummets - but I also need a boat that is big enough for me to spend longer periods aboard as I get further north and as petrol prices rise




The slug is worth perhaps £1000.

If I buy another boat for say £5,000 (maybe less) - plus a trailer for maybe £1500 I can then get control of my costs

If I buy an old Centaur for £7,500 then I am locked into ongoing costs - big boat craning, big boat storage, big boat sails and repair costs

even if I find a cheap place to leave it - but cheap is till going to be a fair amount of cash

Even mothballing the slug for a year at Fosdyke would cost me £800 or more. To spend that money mothballing a boat that is only worth £1000 is insane. To spend £1500 for a trailer to go under a £1000 boat also makes little sense - especlailly as I really need to throw some money at the boat if I am to finish the journey with it.

I am not at the decision point yet.... I have enough resources in cash and optimism to get me through this summer - and who knows - where future freelance revenues will come from.

Certainly not making sailing films.

I am four years into the project and I have to accept that I can flog a few DVDs and I can give stuff away on youtube where maybe 2,000 a year people will bother to watch them - those in turn get me a bit of sailing relatede journalism and a bit of camera work as well but I cannot see my freelance income sustaining a bigger boat.

So I am trying to work out a way ahead in uncertain times - the future for the cost of petrol is looming ever larger as a massive unknown - imagine what would happen if a petrol kept on rising at the speed it has over the past two years. Could I carry on if a tank of petrol for a Polo was £200

As for going native on New Zealand if I end up spending four months over there living in a van..... I have been there and it is a wonderful place but my home is here, my family is are here and I am too old for them to let me in anyway

Dylan

 

[ProDave]

Reading about your dilemma Dylan.

Would not the cheapest way to complete the project be to do it all in one hit. Instead of 4 months in NZ, spend the whole summer on the boat continuously slowly cruising around the coast. In a stroke, you have eliminated your largest cost, petrol to keep driving to and from the boat to do it in stages. and they further North you get, the larger that petrol cost is going to get.

 

[Fascadale]

Hi Dylan

Do you have to do the journey alone?
Do you have to do the journey in a boat that you own?
Might there be a relay of volunteers willing to host you on their own boats?
Certainly it would change the "solo" nature of KTL.
Just a thought

 

[Searush]

Reading about your dilemma Dylan.

Would not the cheapest way to complete the project be to do it all in one hit. Instead of 4 months in NZ, spend the whole summer on the boat continuously slowly cruising around the coast. In a stroke, you have eliminated your largest cost, petrol to keep driving to and from the boat to do it in stages. and they further North you get, the larger that petrol cost is going to get.

But that is 4 months of no work - for a freelance that could mean he never gets another contract.

Just a small thought, Dylan; your style of cruising lends itself very well to writing local pilotage guides. Use the films to provide a series of stills & write up a mix of touristy/ pilotage comments. Your commentaries already do this very well & a picture rich book would sell well in touristy locations. "Hidden Creeks & Harbours of XXXXX" would be a great series title encouraging visitors to explore picturesque but lesser known areas of a given region.

That might help you fund the trip - especially if you could get an advance from a specialist publisher.

 

[Kelpie]

Hi Dylan

Do you have to do the journey alone?
Do you have to do the journey in a boat that you own?
Might there be a relay of volunteers willing to host you on their own boats?
Certainly it would change the "solo" nature of KTL.
Just a thought

I like this idea. If he makes it as far as Stornoway he can borrow my boat for a few weeks.

 

[dylanwinter]

that is true

Reading about your dilemma Dylan.

Would not the cheapest way to complete the project be to do it all in one hit. Instead of 4 months in NZ, spend the whole summer on the boat continuously slowly cruising around the coast. In a stroke, you have eliminated your largest cost, petrol to keep driving to and from the boat to do it in stages. and they further North you get, the larger that petrol cost is going to get.

completing the project by going hell for leather to get around is not really the point. It would get the job done that is for sure.

As searush says above.... my family could not afford to live for four months free of income as I am still a working man...

The NZ cannot be dumped as that is work - not holiday. Don't worry, it is commmon mistake when you tell people you are going to live in a transit for four months ina lovely country

.The journey around the UK is not really just to prove to my fellow sailors that I am caspable of the journey. I really have no worries about being able to do it

I have always said that the sailing and travelling between harbours part is easy.


I would hate to do the journey in none summer miss out on getting to know our brilliant coastline.

I would rather explore a quarter of it well than whizz around the outside hopping from one marina and harbour to the next.

as for the searush idea of a book about harbours

I think that there are several excellent on-line resources about harbours

http://www.harbourguides.com/harbours.php

and most harbours have their own websites

a book.... well I will certainly write a book at the end but writing an accurate coffee table style lavishly illustrated book about you describe would be an expensive undertaking and would generate no cash while it was being written

I just don't think that it would get a market that is big enough to jjustify the cost.

The DVDs have done pretty well. In the run up to Christmas I was sending out about 12 dvds a day - now it is down to around 12 a week - not enough to sustain the project with an unfixed slug - certainly not enough to keep a Centaur going.

I have this summer to explore the Humber and the Tyne.... after that...

who knows....

I don't have a clue where I or the slug will be .... and of itself is a wonderful position to be in

Dylan

 

[Trop Cher]

Something like this?

MacWester Sea Rowan 24ft with purpose built trailer, currently for sale, as I've bought another boat...

 

[prv]

MacWester Sea Rowan 24ft with purpose built trailer, currently for sale, as I've bought another boat...

Sadly not, I assume, as that would fall over when Dylan tries to hide in the mud to spy on the birds.

Pete

 

[Ray Dunne]

Hi Dylan, Earlier this year I built a 4 wheel trailer for my Leisure 23sl. Cost me about 1200 euro. Used 2 transit axles and springs from scrapyard. Towed trailer and boat about 30 miles with a 3litre Isuzu Trooper, no problem. There is no way I could launch and recover to trailer, so you do have to factor in craning. I hope I have attached some pictures..

 

[dylanwinter]

perfect Ray

wow

that is brilliant

time to go into business making trailers I reckon

d

 

[rwoofer]

Hi Dylan, Earlier this year I built a 4 wheel trailer for my Leisure 23sl. Cost me about 1200 euro. Used 2 transit axles and springs from scrapyard. Towed trailer and boat about 30 miles with a 3litre Isuzu Trooper, no problem. There is no way I could launch and recover to trailer, so you do have to factor in craning. I hope I have attached some pictures..

Is that a braked trailer, as it doesn't look it...

Without brakes you could only use it as a yard trailer, which defeats the purpose of this exercise (I think)..

 

[Ray Dunne]

yes 4 brakes and mud guards, cant find a photo of finished product.

 

[VicS]

yes 4 brakes and mud guards, cant find a photo of finished product.

I built my trailer back in the late 1970s ( welding done by a pro) using 4 Mini rear hubs and Indespension units.

I'm surprised its still legal to build your own!

 

[Searush]

Word of warning for those setting up a trailer for someone else to weld . . .


I designed & built a trailer for a 14'6" cat with 7' beam back in the 60's. I placed teh wheels between the hulls to minimise width & set it all up very carefully at the welders before leaving it for him to do later. When I returned he'd done a lovely job of the welding but had clearly moved the trailer a few times before doing the job.

It never, ever towed straight, it was flush with the nearside of the car & has a 12" overhang on the off-side. Annoying, but actually OK once you learned to drive in the gutter.

 

[colhel]

The point about the cost savings not being as good because of all the crane in and out stuff is valid. The main advantage for me is I don't have a 60 mile round trip to work on the boat.
If it were my own trailer I think I'd try and find suitable slip. Re-launching would be a lot easier than recovering, so even if you opted only for a one crane lift you'd save a bit.
Anyhow, as promised pics of our Leisure 23SL on a trailer. Another Leisure on this thread. Have you checked out the Leisure range Dylan? The SL may look a bit sleek, but the older style coachroof would be equal to a Pagaent without the premium cost and possible problems?