Westerly Fulmar bilge keel?

[GTom]

I am on the market for a solid, reliable boat for a family of 4. Mostly coastal use but has to survive the occasional passages to new cruising grounds even if the target sits 1-2 Oceans away.

A few questions: are there any structural issues with the later model (after 1985) Fulmars?
How does the bilge keel change AVS and the boat's self-righting capabilities?

 

[seumask]

We have had a 1984 Bilge keel Fulmar for 7 years now for our family of 4 from age 7 to the current 14 years. I don't think that there's any appreciable difference in AVS compared to the fin keel version. If I recall correctly the keel ballast weights are pretty much the same, however with draft at 4 ft rather than 5ft for the fin, there must be a small amount of difference. Offwind in reaching conditions we feel the boat is more stable with the bilge keels but that's due to water flow , not AVS in my opinion.

Some info on http://www.byronsoftware.org/boats/byboatW.htm
some further info on http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/westerly-fulmar/westerly-fulmar.htm

Compared to other more modern 32 footers it has a significantly higher ballast ratio and we feel very comfortable offshore and although most of our sailing has been channel crossing to Brittany and the west country we have had some challenging weather and feel confident that we are able to sail in exposed ocean conditions with reasonable passage planning and not worried by adverse conditions if they should arrive unplanned.

Not aware of any structural issues effecting this model and the in my opinion the boat is well put together, solidly laid up and easy to work on.

 

[Allergy]

I am on the market for a solid, reliable boat for a family of 4. Mostly coastal use but has to survive the occasional passages to new cruising grounds even if the target sits 1-2 Oceans away.

A few questions: are there any structural issues with the later model (after 1985) Fulmars?
How does the bilge keel change AVS and the boat's self-righting capabilities?

I'm a Westerly owner (Regatta 290)like seumask and would suggest a look at the Westerly Owners Association (£15 p.a.) as a source of technical information and boats for sail too

 

[Concerto]

I know of several Fulmars that have crossed the Atlantic and returned unscathed. Last year I chatted with a woman in her early 70's at a WOA function. She was sailing a Fulmar singlehanded and currently in Portugal and heading for the Med. I also sail singlehanded and went from the Medway to Isles of Scilly and back this year. Sailing with a family will be easy as Fulmars are beautifully balanced and easy to sail. I regularly outperform larger yachts, which is great fun.

I cannot add much more as I know you have read post#2 in this thread. http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?465587-Fulmar-bilge-keel

 

[GTom]

Many thanks for all input, it sounds like really good news to me. I was looking for a shallow draft blue water capable craft for 4, and apparently I can conclude my long research - at least regarding design.

@Concerto: were these bilge-keel Fulmars? I don't know how the population is distributed among the 3 offered keel options...

 

[doug748]

This Fulmar is shown in America and has since circumnavigated:

A German couple, bilge keel.

I reckon it would be a good choice. There are even one or two with a quarter cabin but you would be lucky to find one.

 

[Concerto]

Many thanks for all input, it sounds like really good news to me. I was looking for a shallow draft blue water capable craft for 4, and apparently I can conclude my long research - at least regarding design.

@Concerto: were these bilge-keel Fulmars? I don't know how the population is distributed among the 3 offered keel options...

The Fulmar was designed as a fin keel boat and first launched at the end of 1979. It was very well received but many people who saw the original Fulmar at a boat show, kept asking for a bilge keel version. Much later a lift keel version was introduced, but due to the complexity of the design only 6 were built. I do not know the exact numbers of fin to bilge keel, but I would guess slightly more fin keel versions were built. Contact Trafalgar Yacht Services, they will probably have the exact numbers. http://www.westerly-yachts.co.uk/

Personally I would choose a fin every time, as I have no need to dry a boat out. So unless you need a drying mooring or have limited tidal access, buy a fin. To improve performance, fit a folding propeller and gain extra speed, letting you sail further in a day or get there quicker.

If need any further advice them PM or contact me on the WOA forum.

 

[GTom]

Thank you, i'll browse trough the wealth of information on the woa forum. Drying moorings and substantially less draft, allowing access to shallow anchorages and lagunas are the Fulmar's main appeal for me. I don't mind "loosing" a day on a transat vs a fin-variant in exchange (that's about the performance loss suggested by handicaps)

 

[matt1]

I guess AVS wasn't generally used / available when the Fulmar was originally sold. I do recall an article about the Fulmar that quoted a sailing school in Wales that ran both fin and twin versions of the Fulmar and said both were equally good in heavy weather. I have a Hunter Channel 31 (you could say a more modern Fulmar equivalent? - late 90's/early 2000's design) and the AVS for the fin and twin versions of that are remarkably similar both in the profile of the stability curves and the actual degrees of vanishing stability (I can't recall exact values). The twin version has about 80kg more ballast in the keels than the fin. Would be surprised if the Fulmar had exactly the same ballast across both variants tbh as typically designers used to provide a bit more weight across the two keeled sister ships. The advent of bulbs probably makes that less of an issue today

 

[GTom]

I don't see much drawback then... Pointing is often quoted but I haven't seen any complaints on the bilge keel Fulmar.

 

[richardbrennan]

Don't know what the budget is, but there's a couple of bilge keel Ocean 33s, also an Ed Dubois design that was the Fulmar replacement, for sale on the WOA website. I cannot speak for the bilge keelers, but my fin sails like a dream.

 

[GTom]

Don't know what the budget is, but there's a couple of bilge keel Ocean 33s, also an Ed Dubois design that was the Fulmar replacement, for sale on the WOA website. I cannot speak for the bilge keelers, but my fin sails like a dream.

I want to stay definitely below 10.00m, otherwise a longer (few years) stay in the Med will break the bank.

 

[Kelpie]

It might help to keep an open mind about the exact model of boat, and pick the one that's in the best condition.
Maybe consider the Moody 31 or Sadler 32?

 

[GTom]

The bilge-keel Moody is on my list, the Sadler has 2' shorter LWL and a tad less beam, meaning less space/payload.

 

[doug748]

Between the Moody and the Fulmar you have decide if masthead or fractional rig suits.
I think you are more likely to get a Fulmar at a keen price.

I always fancy a boat that can take the ground - esp on a long trip where you have the leisure do it and take in the scenery, cheap too.

 

[seumask]

if you want to take the ground occasionally there are Fin Keels in this size that take the ground well with legs. Vyv Cox of this parish has a Sadler 34 that falls into this category and I suspect that you could happily fit legs to the Fin keel Fulmar as it has a nice long keel to balance on and is structurally robust with a substantial ring beam in the hull. However I would on the whole not want to leave a fin keel with legs on a drying mooring, this is where a bilge keel excels and is why we have one.

 

[Kelpie]

I've got the same type of legs on my own boat, and they are great for occasional drying out- this is how I do my anti fouling each year. Also gives a certain peace of mind knowing you have more options in case of a grounding.
However I wouldn't leave the boat on a drying swing mooring using the legs- fore and aft would be needed.

 

[GTom]

Is the 20HP engine sufficient for a ~6t (loaded, filled) boat? I see the original engine was the Bukh dv20, can it maintain a 6+kts motoring speed?

 

[Tranona]

Is the 20HP engine sufficient for a ~6t (loaded, filled) boat? I see the original engine was the Bukh dv20, can it maintain a 6+kts motoring speed?

Probably not. It is underpowered, common at that time. Many have been re-engined with 25 or 30hp motors, but even then a 6+knots cruising speed is excessive and heavy on fuel. Remember, these boats were not designed for long distance cruising so have small capacity fuel tanks. 6 knots in flat water would burn over 2l of fuel an hour, more if you tried to maintain it in anything of a seaway.

 

[Concerto]

Is the 20HP engine sufficient for a ~6t (loaded, filled) boat? I see the original engine was the Bukh dv20, can it maintain a 6+kts motoring speed?

The original engine in Fulmars was 24hp, later reduced to 20hp. This was part of the cost cutting to compete against cheaper imported boats. My Fulmar was re-engined with a 28hp Beta (now built as a 30hp). As an aside, my boat weighs 5.5 tons according to the yard crane. If you want to cruise at 6+ knots with any engine, you will drink fuel. Economy cruising is 5 knots, general cruising is 5.5 knots. 6 knots or above will drain your tank quickly. My advice is to sail as much as possible and try and avoid deadlines, unless it is a tidal gate. Sailing is a relaxing sport, so setting arrival times and using the engine to meet them goes against the essence of why I go sailing.

From your original post, you mentioned crossing oceans. Is this a real plan or your dream? I started sailing in 1965 and when I was young I dreamed of racing round the world. I have raced at a competitive level and cruised from the north of Holland and down to Brittany. Once my elderly dog dies, I'm planning on sailing round Britain singlehanded. This will be all new sailing grounds from Lands End round to Lowestoft. A great adventure.

This year I decided to go to the Isles of Scilly and back in 3 weeks, about 1,000 miles sailing distance. Most yachts that sail from the River Medway and the East Coast heading to the Isles of Scilly, never make it. They get distracted by the Solent and the West Country, plus delayed by the prevailing SW winds. Well I made it in 6 days, with one rest day, by sailing for 14 to 16 hours a day. It was hard and very tiring, but the final 30 miles is truly in open water and so different from coastal sailing. I even broke 2 cardinal bits of advice about going to the Isles of Scilly - never go in rough weather and never approach in darkness. It was the experience of sailing for years that prepared me for that trip. This trip was the second of a minimum of three long distance sails to ensure the boat is correctly fitted for all eventualities. I did discover several small but critically important changes are needed to the equipment on the boat.

Experience is something you gain whilst doing something else.