Westerly Fulmar bilge keel?

Ocean passages would happen if I move to new cruising grounds, e.g. UK to the Med, Med to Canaries and as time allows, Transat. Until the Canaries it's a definitive plan.

I am more dreaming of a northern direction (Faroe, Iceland) but being skeptical that it will be realized in the next decade.

Regarding the engine: true, i don't want to drain the tank in a few hours, I was curious how the weight and the 20hp are related. Some 2nd hand boats seem to be repowered unfortunately with Volvo & Yanmar :(.
 
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GTom said:
Ocean passages would happen if I move to new cruising grounds, e.g. UK to the Med, Med to Canaries and as time allows, Transat. Until the Canaries it's a definitive plan.

I am more dreaming of a northern direction (Faroe, Iceland) but being skeptical that it will be realized in the next decade.

Regarding the engine: true, i don't want to drain the tank in a few hours, I was curious how the weight and the 20hp are related. Some 2nd hand boats seem to be repowered unfortunately with Volvo & Yanmar :(.
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What's wrong with Yanmar?

Btw, with a family of four on a Fulmar, you will find yourself at the smaller end of the scale for boats doing liveaboard cruising. It can be done of course, I just hope you all get on well :)
 
Kelpie said:
What's wrong with Yanmar?

Btw, with a family of four on a Fulmar, you will find yourself at the smaller end of the scale for boats doing liveaboard cruising. It can be done of course, I just hope you all get on well :)
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Parts/repairs are more expensive than beta/sole AFAIK. Just as Volvo...
I know it's tight but we want to start small and go up only if necessary - maybe it will be wise to wait with costy items (new engine, sails, epoxy treatment) until I see that we really fit in.
 
GTom said:
Is the 20HP engine sufficient for a ~6t (loaded, filled) boat? I see the original engine was the Bukh dv20, can it maintain a 6+kts motoring speed?
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Certainly no problem in good conditions, less so with a strong headwind, certainly not when biffing into large waves. Whatever engine you have, there is a point were the hull, or the people in it, reach the limit when trying to motor directly upwind.

So don't let a 20hp engine put you off, the boat is a good sailor and in poor conditions you are most likely to want to head off under sail and motor. The bonus is that you have no need to tow a gert prop about or submit to the vagaries of anything that folds

As you say I would avoid Volvo or Bukh but unfortunately that is the reality if you are looking for a bargain. Any modern 3 cylinder diesel is a great bonus.
As the others have said, trying to motor a boat of this size at six knots is usually a mugs game - passage plan for 5kts overall, sail or power.
 
GTom said:
Parts/repairs are more expensive than beta/sole AFAIK. Just as Volvo...
I know it's tight but we want to start small and go up only if necessary - maybe it will be wise to wait with costy items (new engine, sails, epoxy treatment) until I see that we really fit in.
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That expensive parts and repairs bit is over hyped and in the case of Volvo heavily influenced by the experience of folks trying to keep 30 year old engines running.

The reality is that the need for parts and repairs on any of the Japanese industrial engines (which is what all modern engines are) is minimal and there are alternative suppliers of regular service parts such as filters, belts etc at lower prices. It is no coincidence that charter boats which place more demands on engines than a private user exclusively fit Yanmar and Volvo engines.

So, don't worry about the engine if it is new(ish) but be wary of old Volvos and Bukhs.
 
I see two kind of engine deals: newish beta/sole/etc or a decent discount (>2k £, about half the cost of a new Sole/beta) on a still working Bukh, which I'd repower on the first sign of trouble. The worst deal I guess is a late 90's Volvo 2002/3 "upgrade", where the owner expects some bonus on his investment but those engines are already 20 years old and belong to the probably worst series of Volvo.

Regarding power: I can imagine situations when I have to fight a serious headwind (actually one good reason to use the engine, instead of tacking in e.g. channels).

The above points convinced me to steer away from a penta 2002 "upgraded" boat.
 
GTom said:
I see two kind of engine deals: newish beta/sole/etc or a decent discount (>2k £, about half the cost of a new Sole/beta) on a still working Bukh, which I'd repower on the first sign of trouble. The worst deal I guess is a late 90's Volvo 2002/3 "upgrade", where the owner expects some bonus on his investment but those engines are already 20 years old and belong to the probably worst series of Volvo.

Regarding power: I can imagine situations when I have to fight a serious headwind (actually one good reason to use the engine, instead of tacking in e.g. channels).

The above points convinced me to steer away from a penta 2002 "upgraded" boat.
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The 200X series was replaced in mid 90s by the excellent 20X0 series so you won't find any late 90s 2002 engines.

Yanmar 3GM or 3YM, Volvo 2030 or D1-30, Beta/Nanni 25 or 28/30 are the engines of choice.

As already suggested the 20hp engine is OK if you just want an auxiliary, but it barely achieves hull speed in flat water, and once you load up with cruising gear which will add 1.5-2 tons to displacement you need the 30hp. Best also to get a folding or feathering prop to achieve maximum motoring performance and get best sailing.

You will find, particularly if you spend time in the Med, that you will spend more time motoring and motorsailing so a strong engine is really a necessity.
 
GTom said:
Regarding power: I can imagine situations when I have to fight a serious headwind (actually one good reason to use the engine, instead of tacking in e.g. channels).

The above points convinced me to steer away from a penta 2002 "upgraded" boat.
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A wise move.

There is nothing wrong with a slightly bigger engine though many people fit them just because they can. An outrageously large engine, say over 30hp on this type of boat, generally means they have got it off Ebay or the bloke down the pub and I would treat it with a great deal of caution.
Don't get the idea that a Fulmar with 20hp will be easily stopped by a strong headwind. Many Oceanis 34s (for example) have this amount of grunt with 12ft beam, an extra ton of lightship weight and windage like an airship garage.

"I know it's tight but we want to start small and go up only if necessary - maybe it will be wise to wait with costy items (new engine, sails, epoxy treatment) until I see that we really fit in." GTom

Yes, you will probably get a better handle on it when you have been aboard a few. Or maybe a charter:

http://www.asyc.co.uk/cgi-bin/database/member.pl?lochaber

Probably not the most handy though..
 
Tranona said:
The 200X series was replaced in mid 90s by the excellent 20X0 series so you won't find any late 90s 2002 engines.

Yanmar 3GM or 3YM, Volvo 2030 or D1-30, Beta/Nanni 25 or 28/30 are the engines of choice.
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I don't know where the owners got their engines from/how long did they sit on them before refit, but I definitely recall offers where a 2002/3 were fitted in 1996-98.

I was checking the characteristics of the yanmar 3YM30, apparently it consumes way more fuel than the beta 30 if you want to run at around 20HP. The Sole doesn't seem too bad either.

I know it's not top priority in many popular places where there is a fuel berth at every corner, but in some regions it's not irrelevant how far do you get with the 90L fuel tank:).
 
GTom said:
I don't know where the owners got their engines from/how long did they sit on them before refit, but I definitely recall offers where a 2002/3 were fitted in 1996-98.

I was checking the characteristics of the yanmar 3YM30, apparently it consumes way more fuel than the beta 30 if you want to run at around 20HP. The Sole doesn't seem too bad either.

I know it's not top priority in many popular places where there is a fuel berth at every corner, but in some regions it's not irrelevant how far do you get with the 90L fuel tank:).
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The thermal efficiency of modern diesels is virtually the same irrespective of manufacturer so would not expect any significant difference between the 3YM and any of the others. The important thing is to get the prop correct so that you load the engine properly. Typically with a 30hp rated engine you will have an average hourly consumption of +/- 1.5l giving your comfortable range of over 50 hours or about 270 miles with a 90l tank.
 
I'm not sure where this mistrust of Yanmars comes from.
I've had both a Beta and a Yanmar, and whilst they have both been excellent engines, if forced to choose my favourite it would probably be the Yanmar. I didn't really like the heat exchanger on the Beta which was made of a mixture of metals, but mostly Al, and consumed anodes ferociously.
 
We have a Bukh dv24 on our bilge keel Fulmar with a folding prop. The fuel tank supplied by westerly is around 100 litters. Motoring is comfortable at 5-5.5 knots.( 2-2500 rpm) for us with an over propped flex o fold prop, 6 to 6.5 is noisier and less comfortable on the ears!
I would have no qualms about motoring up to around 40 hours on the main tank alone giving an approx. range of at least 200 miles in flat water, but I suspect at around 2000 rpm we'd get over 300 miles, we rarely need to put any more diesel on our 2 weeks holiday each year.
I like the 1998 Bukh DV24 we have as I can start it by hand and do so 3 or 4 times a season. Would I change it, yes but only when its worn out and I suspect that may take many many more years, and corrosion will get it first like most yacht engines.
 
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I love my Yanmar, my old boat had an old Yanmar and when our Volvo Penta (a.k.a ancient Perkins rebranded_ died it was Yanmar first choice.

Our Westerly Pentland is a bit older than the Fulmar and hull shape not as good but otherwise fairly similar and has no issues in bad weather, (unlike my stomach). The Navigator refuses to accompany me across the Atlantic so thats out, but we make 75 mile legs to the Scillies or across Irish Sea and have never thought seaworthyness an issue.

For much coastal sailing in the shallow waters of E coast or highly tidal W coast a bilge keeler will get you into wonderful places, while fin keelers are restricted to the soul graveyards of Marinas.
 
I note that a Fulmar caned a lot of much bigger, super modern, larger boats in this year's Fastnet.
Including one Varianta 44, Sun Odyssey 36, Dufour 365, First 40.7, Bavaria 44 and a capful of others. I guess it's a fin keel though.

On elapsed time.
 
oldmanofthehills said:
I love my Yanmar, my old boat had an old Yanmar and when our Volvo Penta (a.k.a ancient Perkins rebranded_ died it was Yanmar first choice.
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Not so sure a Pentland would have had a Perkins derived Volvo given that they did not come in until 1995. It would have been fitted originally with a Volvo Volvo.
 
My fin Fulmar with folding prop can usually out sail many larger yachts, especially if they do not know how to set their sails! They find it very disheartening (except when short tacking) and frequently ask me how I do it as I am singlehanded against their crewed boats. Just shrug my shoulders and say Fulmars are quick boats. :)
 
In addition to Cap'n Sensible, many years ago (at least 20) we sailed against a bilge keel Fulmar that was taking part in our Mount Gay Regatta here in Barbados - she had recently arrived from the Canaries, and was in full cruising trim.
And we were all very impressed by how well she (was) sailed - she beat the pants off everything else of similar size to her in the cruising division.
 
Tranona said:
Not so sure a Pentland would have had a Perkins derived Volvo given that they did not come in until 1995. It would have been fitted originally with a Volvo Volvo.
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It originally was Vovo Volvo and I think 20hp but the replacement about 17 years ago was Volvo Penta M2030, which as I indicated is 1950 technology and worse still has a badly designed water cooling flow which sucks in all senses thus is vulnerable to poor priming and poor performance if impellors are worn. My Volvo Penta saildrive of my old Anderson 22 was a piece of sh"t too as magneto wouldnt spark in damp i.e. maritime climates, so very unimpressed with Volvo marine services, though Volvo cars are excellent.
 
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