West epoxy

ghostlymoron

ghostlymoron

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Is West epoxy any different from other brands. I've always assumed that epoxy resin is the same stuff whoever makes it but some comments on this forum suggest this is not the case. I'm aware of the difference between polyester and epoxy resin.
 
ghostlymoron said:
Is West epoxy any different from other brands. I've always assumed that epoxy resin is the same stuff whoever makes it but some comments on this forum suggest this is not the case. I'm aware of the difference between polyester and epoxy resin.
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The most expensive epoxy to manufacture are the ones that mix in a ratio of 1:1. The expense is in the hardner not the resin. West being 5:1 is the cheapest to manufacture. They make a great manual on how to do epoxy projects and market their product well but there are far better epoxies around. SIP make great epoxy for example.
From a purely practical perspective, when you are doing small projects, 1:1 epoxy is very easy to get the volumes right by having two thimble sized containers with equal volumes in each. 5:1 is far easier to make a mistake on mix ratios and not so easy to mix small amounts.
I once researched the water permeabilty of various epoxies and West was not particulary good. When you realise you can get good 1:1 epoxy at the same cost of West why would you go with West
 
If your question's global, ghostly, rather than confined to boating supplies, the answer is that there are literally thousands of different formulations of epoxies with a vast range of properties. It's also true that only a relatively small number of companies manufacture the basic stuff: many others tinker with it for particular applications.

West has a special niche in the hobby market not because it's anything special but because of its comprehensive product range and approach to distribution and marketing. The latter includes probably the best (free) practical guides to epoxy use. (Which are just as applicable to any other brands of epoxy you're likely to encounter.)
 
Epoxy is a whole family of sticky chemicals.
As sold for coating and laminating, you can have Water based, solvent based, solvent free, different viscosities, setting times, many other variable properties.

I use West or SP. because I have a few miles on the clock and that helps with getting good results.

As an example of how much 'epoxy' varies, I've often used common 5 minute Araldite for small repairs, e.g. a chip in a dinghy rudder.
I bought some el cheapo 2 tube epoxy glue. I used it to glue some stuff and it was quite strong. I used it as a quick way to fill a redundant screwhole on my dinghy and two days later when it got wet, it went weird and swelled up.
In future I'll 'stick' with what I know!
 
The main reason to use WEST is that they make their product very user friendly for people not used to epoxy and resins, with measured ratio syringes etc - they are rather expensive but if a grp novice on a small job, probably worth it.

For a large project, I'd suggest reading up on grp epoxy and getting cheaper stuff in bulk.
 
Seajet said:
The main reason to use WEST is that they make their product very user friendly for people not used to epoxy and resins, with measured ratio syringes etc - they are rather expensive but if a grp novice on a small job, probably worth it.

For a large project, I'd suggest reading up on grp epoxy and getting cheaper stuff in bulk.
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Having used several different brands of epoxy over the years my experience is that West is by far the hardest to use and the least forgiving of errors in mix ratios. Any epoxy can be mixed using syringes or pots so why pay extra for an inferior product?
 
Do not forget that Solvent Free Epoxyspresent less of a health risk than solvent based. An advantage of West Epoxy is that they do a slow and a fast hardener. Having used 6 different epoxys on substantial jobs there are others which are half the price and seem pretty similar in performance. West also seems far worse in my usage for bloom than many others which is a bind if you cannot lay wet onto partially cured. Their booklet on fibreglassing and range of supplies is excellent and they make it easier for the novice but that comes at a price. I like Fyyne Boats solvent free epoxy, SP and East Coast Fibreglass both for performance and price.
 
lw395 said:
Epoxy is a whole family of sticky chemicals.
As sold for coating and laminating, you can have Water based, solvent based, solvent free, different viscosities, setting times, many other variable properties.

I use West or SP. because I have a few miles on the clock and that helps with getting good results.

As an example of how much 'epoxy' varies, I've often used common 5 minute Araldite for small repairs, e.g. a chip in a dinghy rudder.
I bought some el cheapo 2 tube epoxy glue. I used it to glue some stuff and it was quite strong. I used it as a quick way to fill a redundant screwhole on my dinghy and two days later when it got wet, it went weird and swelled up.
In future I'll 'stick' with what I know!
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I have also experienced Araldite going soft when wet.
 
C08 said:
1. An advantage of West Epoxy is that they do a slow and a fast hardener.
2. West also seems far worse in my usage for bloom than many others
3. [West] booklet on fibreglassing and range of supplies is excellent and they make it easier for the novice but that comes at a price.
4. I like Fyyne Boats solvent free epoxy, SP and East Coast Fibreglass both for performance and price.
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1. That's by no means confined to West. Any reputable epoxy supplier should offer hardeners of various speeds (sometimes slow, fast and medium).
2. Couldn't agree more re West and bloom, especially in typical UK ambient conditions.
3. The techniques in the West booklet (and on-line info) work perfectly well with other brands without incurring West product prices.
4. East Coast Fibreglass Supplies sell epoxies. They don't make or self-brand them. They even sell West (and about half a dozen others). Helpful company, with many testimonials on here.
 
As I suspected, the so called West System is a clever marketing ploy and their products are no better than anyone else's. They have invested substantially in their how-to guides (which are excellent) and are reaping the rewards. I've found ECS much cheaper and very helpful with friendly advice and, now I know there is nothing special about West's, I'll continue to use their stuff.
 
I haven't used epoxy yet, but will be very soon. Some resins (eg Wests) produce an 'amine bloom' which IIRC needs to be washed off before the next lot goes on. Presumably as you can't do a thick layup in one go, this addd work abd tine waiting for it to dry.
Some don't do this so there is less work involved. I have been advised that MAS epoxies don't bloom and that is what I'll be ordering from ECFG.
All from my pre-doing it research.
 
mogmog2 said:
I haven't used epoxy yet, but will be very soon. Some resins (eg Wests) produce an 'amine bloom' which IIRC needs to be washed off before the next lot goes on.
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Not exactly true. Only applies if you leave it too long. If you are applying layer on layer in reasonable periods there is no problem. I cannot remember the timing but I did a major job using West & had no problem with it whatsoever. I would recommend it every time. Just follow the rules.
 
TQA said:
I was told that there are two key types of resin.

Laminating resin which can be overcoated with another coat.

Finishing resin which contains a wax which causes a further coat to 'fish eye'. Is this what produces amine blush.
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Those two types of resin only applies to polyester.

Completely irrelevant to epoxy, which is where you can get the amine blush.
 
Types of Epoxy Resins: There are two main categories of epoxy resins, namely the glycidyl epoxy, and non-glycidyl epoxy resins. The glycidyl epoxies are further classified as glycidyl-ether, glycidyl-ester and glycidyl-amine. The non-glycidyl epoxies are either aliphatic or cycloaliphatic epoxy resins.

http://sunilbhangale.tripod.com/epoxy.html

It's the additives that make the difference, like in polyester with the additions that make the difference in laminating gelcoat and flow coat. The same applies to the additions to epoxy for different applications.
 
West supply a different hardener for finishing. I think it's purpose is to improve flow characteristics. (It's 3:1 not 5:1.)
 
Wests is bloody awful, you'll realise this once you've used a few other epoxy brands, Wests is nothing more than a triumph of mass marketing in a very limited market so it shuts out almost every other manufacturer. Go to eastcoast fibreglass and get yourself some MAS epoxy, i'd recommend Reactive resins but they're no more, that still pisses me off to this day (went bust a couple years ago).

Anyway avoid wests its a waste of time and money.................
 
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