West coast wintering?

We spent two winters afloat in the marina in Stornoway. We used to live there so it's an obvious choice for us. Prices were very reasonable indeed.
I don't think they have enough hard standing to spend the winter ashore though.
 
dgadee said:
Club is £70 a lift. But I was comparing with Med prices.
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You can't compare to a club - presumably that is with a hired in crane and no other labour, not the flexibility of short notice liftouts? Within "Obanish" everywhere is expensive. Lochinver is cheaper but not astonishingly cheap. Its slightly better on the Clyde. Cairnbaan uses the economy of scale of a crane. If you want club type arrangements (and I assume matching prices) you probably want to look at the Inchinnan Cruising club. I'm not aware of anyone else operating a club type arrangement within the popular areas.
 
ylop said:
You can't compare to a club - presumably that is with a hired in crane and no other labour, not the flexibility of short notice liftouts? Within "Obanish" everywhere is expensive. Lochinver is cheaper but not astonishingly cheap. Its slightly better on the Clyde. Cairnbaan uses the economy of scale of a crane. If you want club type arrangements (and I assume matching prices) you probably want to look at the Inchinnan Cruising club. I'm not aware of anyone else operating a club type arrangement within the popular areas.
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I wasn't comparing a club but the Med. There does seem to be a shortage of ashore space. Surprising given it's an obvious employer in an area where there's not much employment.
 
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I got a price from the fox marina, and they seem to be 4 times more expensive than the marina the boat stayed in during this winter, in Struer Denmark.
Ouch.
 
dgadee said:
There does seem to be a shortage of ashore space.
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That's down, in part, to the proliferation of fish farming. A few years ago, a facility of about 50 swing moorings and ~250 winter storage spaces was turned into a fish hatchery.
dgadee said:
Surprising given it's an obvious employer in an area where there's not much employment.
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There's even fewer workers. Currently, many "hospitality" operations are working a 5 day week due to shortage of staff. It's tough being retired here.
 
dgadee said:
I wasn't comparing a club but the Med.
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I don’t have any experience with the Med - how much are costs there?
dgadee said:
There does seem to be a shortage of ashore space.
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Yes everywhere is almost full or actually full. Land in remote places is expensive, you’ll need the land to be accessible by sea - and if it needs any engineering (like a slipway) you’ll be negotiating with Marine Scotland, Crown Estates and your local council, probably SEPA, potentially NatureScot, and that’s list to level an area and put down gravel.
dgadee said:
Surprising given it's an obvious employer in an area where there's not much employment.
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Ah, the they should be grateful I’ve given them a job at all strategy for determining employee wages! There are also relatively few people, they’ve been priced out the area by Airbnb/holiday homes and the sort of experience that might be useful is sought after by the fish farm sector. Or if you mean the council should find more land to support growth of these places - you have to wonder if they really add any value to locals or does it create a tiny number of jobs but extra traffic, noisy halards, etc.

That said everyone’s pricing is surprisingly similar and I’m sure it’s a “what we can get away with” model. If you need to rent a cradle you will be even more limited in your options.
 
Housing costs are behind so many Highland (and urban) issues. I remember the complaints from those in Lochinver about retirees coming from the south, being able to buy a croft, staying a few years then going back south when grandchildren or suchlike appears. Pricing the locals out of anything but ex council housing. Why would you stay when you can't get housing for a family?

No need for a cradle. The only time I have negative feelings towards two keels is when the handicap doesn't take into account my extra leeway on a long beat.
 
dgadee said:
On prices, I am at Port Napoleon. Lift is about Euro 160 for a 9m yacht (size I will be taking over to the west). Washing extra but only needed one way and if you are dry sailing, probably not needed at all.

https://www.port-adhoc.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/Port_Napoleon_rates_2025.pdf
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The total costs of 6 months ashore are broadly the same - they've split it up differently but Lift, Wash, Store (6m), Launch looks like its €1,743 v £1,638. They've apportioned the costs differently - but then they have a very different number of berths!
 
The cost should decrease as one goes to more populous areas, not decrease as the OP seems to expect. Do some sums:

The following assumes money is available at 5% - this is hopelessly optimistic, I bet many small businesses pay double, especially small boat yards.

What does a hoist cost?
Around £100,000 (Wise don't list prices on the website, but auction data for 2nd hand reveals 100k ish)
How long does one last? Say 20 years (it's the age most big marinas trade theirs in for a new model), so amortise cost is 5k p.a.
Interest on 100k business loan: say 5k p.a.
How much maintenance p.a? (a guess, but say equivalent to a combine?) £800 labour, same again for parts. Add a set of slings replaced every year = £2000 -> 3600
Total annual cost of having a hoist: 5000 + 5000 + 3600 = 13.6k
Maintenance of slip: 20 year replacement / major refirb. Cost to make £80k? -> 4k, add interest makes it 8k.

How much labour to operate it?
3 men, 1 hour per haul out: £30 an hour each, plus diesel.
Move boat to yard and shore it up, plus insurance: say the same again -> £200 total

How many movements a year?
Big yard, say 1000, small one say 80.

So costs, no profit are:
Big Yard
(13.6k + 8k)/1000 + 200 = £221.6 a haul out

Small yard
(13.6k + 8k)/80 + 200 = £470 a haul out.

Adjust the details as you see fit, but back of envelope calcs make the costs you've been quoted seem not too unreasonable. Maybe you can pay staff less in remote places, but pay peanuts and get...
 
jdc said:
3 men, 1 hour per haul out: £30 an hour each, plus diesel.
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Your figures seem quite high to me. An hour for a haul out? 3 men? And you don't factor in the lower cost of ground away from populations. Do they really replace slings every year?
 
dgadee said:
Your figures seem quite high to me. An hour for a haul out? 3 men? And you don't factor in the lower cost of ground away from populations. Do they really replace slings every year?
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When I was involved with heavy lifting gear (fish farming) we replaced slings when they saw signs of damage. They can last years if looked after properly.

The wages one is interesting. You can't apply perfect market models to a situation like this. Some businesses in rural locations have to provide staff accommodation, otherwise they get no staff. You also tend to get very high turnover which affects training costs.

It's an effect caused when wages don't reflect local earning potential. Which is what happens when retirees from a richer part of the world move in.
 
presumably a med slipway is accessible 24/7 so you don’t have to pay your staff extra for unsociable hours. Lochnell (and many west coast yards) have to work around the tide (and weather).

I wouldn’t assume that flat land with reasonable road links in a prime location like the W of S is necessarily cheaper than near a big population.
 
Well I have no absolutely no idea about running a business but I am happy with my find. Probably the same cost (maybe less) than returning to Granton and going back in Spring given cost of club and Caledonian combined.
 
You shouldn't take my numbers seriously (my businesses have been in microelectronics and cloud software plus hobby farming, thus rather different); by all means change them. But what I do insist on is asking oneself "would I start, or invest in, a company on this basis?" and if for any boating service the answer is "not on your nellie" then you have no right to moan about prices.
 
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jdc said:
You shouldn't my numbers seriously (my businesses have been in microelectronics and cloud software plus hobby farming, thus rather different); by all means change them. But what I do insist on is asking oneself "would I start, or invest in, a company on this basis?" and if for any boating service the answer is "not on your nellie" then you have no right to moan about prices.
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So if I was not going to start the business I should not complain about prices? That's a bit extreme surely?
 
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