We went to look at some yachts today................

Becky

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and were somewhat surprised at what we saw.

Not your average AWB's, but some really serious yachts; a Moody 47 and 49, and an Oyster 55.

The Moody 47 was one of the Princess built boats from Plymouth, and was pretty good. Spacious, nice interior, good layout, and quite nicely put together. So we set off to examine the Halmatics-built 49 with some degree of excitement; to be quite disappointed. The finish wasn't as good, the hand-hold in the centre of the saloon was flimsy, and this was the main handhold for this part of the yacht. There were no really comfortable sea berths. Superficially the boat was very nice, if one wasn't already used to the older yachts, with good quality joinery, nicely finished joints and corners, and wood used in construction instead of MDF.

As marina boats these were very good, if somewhat built down to a price. And what prices, the Moody 49 was £400000, the 47 a mere £270000. Just a couple of years older and a different manufacturer.

Then we went on the Oyster 55; and wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This was a tired example, been on the market for ages and needed a lot to bring her up to scratch. But what features! A decent saloon with an enormous table that folds in half, seats with at least one dedicated as a sea berth. Separate cabins with pullman-type bunks that would work well at sea. A master stateroom in the stern that was simply excellent, and an equivalent one in the bow, both with en-suite heads/shower rooms. An excellent galley, though to be fair, all three had brilliant galleys with fridges, freezers, microwaves, and good cookers and sinks. But with the Oyster, despite being neglected and tired, it was still streets ahead of the other boats. It was a 1990 vintage, with some damp due to water ingress, and the were some water stains on the woodwork, but we would still love to take it on as a project, and we would have one fabulous yacht! The whole ambience was of mini-superyacht, and I would love it!

New boats are very nice; light, swift, ergonomic, easy to look after, I could go on.

But something a bit older, built by craftsmen and designed by real sailors, with the penny-counters banished from the design meetings still ticks all my boxes /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

We aren't seriously loking to replace Cornish Maid, but every now and again, to visit the new boats on the market just reminds us what a lovely boat we have.

Unless it happens to be an Oyster /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Yes we were at the Moodys Premier marina/brokerage.

Incidentally we went to the Northshore open day for owners last week, and I agree, the quality is very good indeed. Not up to Oyster standards; there was a wine storage cabinet on runners so that it slid back out of the way when not in use, and really beautifully constructed on the Oyster.. The whole arrangement is very much comfortable live-aboard in considerable style. And of course there was plenty of room for the crew. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

We also had a good look at an Island Packet 44, which is a rather nicely built boat, with for me a somewhat quirky interior layout. But a very good cruising boat, although I have been told they are somewhat slow.

Quality fitting-out is so labour-intensive that it is beyond the pockets of most people, and with the loss of rain forest, those wonderful solid mahogony and teak interiors of years ago are just not possible these days.

Still, our Moody is pretty good inside even though some of the bulkheads are veneered teak (but on mahogony plywood!!) . And the build is distinctly on the generous side.
 
I looked at that 55 about a year ago. It's a bit neglected and could prob be bought for a silly offer, but what a project! You'd end up with a fabulous liveaboard, and the aft cabin is gorgeous

1581aft.jpg


I'd be tempted if I could keep her outside UK or at least live aboard for a few months each year, but not much good for pootling round the Solent
 
A slightly sobering note now...

How much would one of those boats cost new now? £1m? £1.5m? Just have a think about what it might cost to maintain a £1m or £1.5m boat - because effectively that is what you will be into. And at 12-15 years old, you are into a fairly serious maintenance area - sails, decks, rigging, rig & topside repaints, engine, gearbox, refridgeration, generator, it is all getting rather long in the tooth (unless already replaced or otherwise sorted)...

Yes, you certainly get a lot of boat for your money, but there are consequences....

... Don't get me wrong - I love my Mystic 60 ketch to bits, but it is a major committment...

Alan
 
I looked at the new Moodys at the SBS and thought the quality was not as good as the late 90s vintage. (I do wonder if Moody yachts will survive!!!) I took a look at a Moody 46 (98 vintage) and thought it was very impressive, however it is not a slim lady, especially towards the front, and reputation has it that she does not point all that well. Nevertheless a very well constructed yacht. I was thinking of upgrading last year but for Solent poodling 46 is still quite large. Not many marina berths etc... Even my 42cc is a problem when going to Yarmouth etc etc...

Has anyone taken a look at the last of the Westerlys. There is a Westerly Oceanmaster 49 at Dover(98). I did think about going to take a look as a possible alternative. From the pics I am not to sure about the quality of the finish, but you really cannot judge. The other thing is the enormous cost of berthing. At Mercury £7.4k is crippling enough!!!

Any views?

Dick
 
The Oceanmaster 49 has been in Dover for about a year now, hasnt moved (is my understanding) looks ok from the outside looks as though its regularly looked after, but as others have said you need deep pockets for upkeep and renovation on large craft, which is why I bought a new Jeanneau 3 years ago, havnt regreted it yet.

Looked at new yachts at Southampton this year, dissapointed with the standard of finish on HR, Malo and Amel all beginning to look cheap in some areas when you consider the market they aim at, but then the latest mass produced offerings are (IMHO) AWFUL - the interiors are missing, the sail plans are tiny, the chainplates are medieval - if I can SEE the penny pinching - what lurks where I cannot see? Oh and I have SEEN Oyster mouldings when bow thrusters have been fitted - the gell coat on the plug was thicker than the layup - the whole lot was less than .25" thick right on the bow where you would expect some strength - high price is no guarentee of quality.
 
I agree about the AWO yachts at the SBS. The Bav50 was pretty poor. The finish on the woodwork was thin and felt like dust had settled when it dried. It was voluminous but I would think you could be thrown all over the place in any sort of sea. Very disappointing since I have a Bav42cc which I regard as pretty well fitted out. Re the Oyster skin, I tihnk the legal minimum is 6mm. It sounds as though Oyster were legal!!! (just!!!) I did like Contest though, nice yacht - a bit pricy for me though...
 
Re Oyster. Helped a mate deliver his brand new Oyster 62 (£1.750million) from Gibraltar to Croatia last year (seven days and nights non stop except for a six hour stop in Palermo). Lovely boat, but after a year in build with it's very own "project engineer" and 20,000 man hours, it was delivered with a lot a faults, including a considerable list to port!! Not great really, and it had to be taken to Palma for remedial work.

In fairness though, the joinery was very nice, and the engineering "behind the scenes" was awesome.
 
A friend purchased a 1995 Westerly 49 earlier this year. Cost £175K, and needed a lot of work to bring it up to scratch. Right now, it's in the process of having a £30K replacement of the teak decks, and much of the plumbing has to be replaced including both heads. All in all, a lot of money for a 12 year old boat. It is, however, a lot of boat, and after a dayat the helm earlier in September off the West coast of Scotland I can confirm it sails beautifully. I'm flying up to Largs with him in 10 days time to see the progress made so far. It's going to end up a beauty!!
 
An interesting thread, and we all love to dream particularly when the big boys are open for viewing. For long term live-aboards with the money to buy a high quality fisnish, the prestige makes are the choice. It is no criticism of present volume boats that they have fewer fittings - that's what the market wants for family cruising and weekend tripping. Modern hulls are no less sound as boats, they're just not kitted out for such live-aboards.

Bringing boat costs down dramatically has allowed another tranche of outdoor enthusiasts to enjoy the wonder of the open sea: criticism of them or their boats, direct or implied, is patronising.

But there are other considerations- a couple of additional comments:

1. I have sailed from the Baltic to quite far down the French coast in my yacht, and at nearly 12m x 4m I feel the pinch when looking for marina berths. Motor boats over 14m often have a torrid time - even manoeuvering in these places is difficult. Building larger berths, especially to handle more than 3.8m beam, is proceeding very slowly. Air draft over 18m puts much of Dutch waters out of reach, and water draft over 2.4m begins to pinch too in many N European waters. But if you're happy anchoring or making longer passages between suitable ports, or putting on to the outside of mooring arms, then this limitation can be managed.

2. Handling loads on a sailing vessel rise exponentially with increasing size, and over 15m start to become an issue for a regular family crew. There are hydraulic aids etc but the experienced skipper knows that unless there is a full capable crew aboard there is no reserve in the event of breakdown or illness. Of course, on 20m+ boats there is likely to be additional crew.

So, costs apart, I conclude that for cruising in European waters there is a cutoff in felxibility and handleability in sail boats much over 12m, which is not offset by greater range and overall capability until 20m or so is reached - but then that is quite another sort of cruising.

PWG
 
I agree with all you say.

We bought a Moody 37 in very good basic condition, and the survey was very positive. BUT, we have spent more than the purchase price since just up-grading and correcting 20 years of wear. Maybe we have been over conscientious, but we have a solid strong capable boat with everything we could want, with the build quality of an HR or Malo, but at still a lot less cost. And she feels quite new!

With everything but mast and engine changed, we have an ostensibly reliable and prooven boat that we can easily manage on our own, and which will fit into the places we like to cruise to.
 
Just noticed your boat is a Bavaria 42 Ocean and her name is 'Singapore Sling'. I think that was our original 'Ile Jeudi'! I hope you are still happy with her.

We bought a Bavaria 47 Ocean. It does us nicely and we now live on board. My wife is bored with hearing me say how the 47 is 'not as well fitted out as our previous 42'. Our cupboards are all built out to the sides and they are not as nicely detailed. I think the 47 was the start of Bavaria's move to mass production.

Having said all that, she sails well in a blow, has good directional stability and has a solid hull. Looks after us well.

Haven't inspected the 50. Saw a 46 last year and liked the lighter coloured wood but couldn't tell how well they are made now.

Anyway, thought I would touch base.

By the way - if you are not happy with the 42 then I never met you before in my life!

Cheers,

Bob
 
Correct... We have been very pleased with Ile Jeudi (now Singapore Sling). I think this model (42cc) was great value and much better fitted out than the newer aft cockpits. She has been a joy to own. We have not really done a great deal to her, other than a new chart plotter and VHF. However she is in pristine condition (albeit I am biased) and has been well maintained.

All in all it was one of the best decisions I made to buy her. Scary at the time since I never owned a yacht before, but learnt quickly!!! We are not particularly adventurous but as experience grows so does confidence. We generally go down to the West Country in the summer, but sometime we will go further afield.

I am interested in your 47 Ocean. I have never actually seen one in the water but I thought we might have seen yours a few years back on the hard at Bucklers hard. I imagine it is very comfortable... Do you have inmast furling, and if so have you got another MaxiRoach? I think this is a very good system.

All the best

Dick
 
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