Water ballast for dinghies?

[trapezeartist]

If you're not concerned about class rules, why not pick a non-trapeze boat and add a trapeze? Two wires, a bit of shockcord and a longer tiller extension and the job is done. The boat doesn't get heavy, you don't need to trapeze all the time, but can hop out on the wire when it gets blowy.

 

[Greenheart]

I'd given the Hornet some serious thought. Not much seems to be written about it, but it looks like the right combination of performance, space, visual appeal and economy. Interestingly, it's one of those rare boats that has been used with a sliding seat!

Thank you, Trapezeartist; fitting a trapeze was always high amongst my priorities. I was interested to read that Albacores are sailed with trapezes in Canada, "for training purposes". Hard to believe that anyone who'd seen the advantage available from standing on the gunwale, would ever want to continue without it!

On water ballast...I'm actually beginning to like 'my' idea of three or four lengths of that grey 4" drain pipe, set athwartship on the cockpit floor, to allow 60 or 70 litres of water ballast to drain rapidly downhill between the windward and leeward seat-tanks, in the final seconds before tacking.

It might look awful, and it'd need better plumbing skills than mine, but it needn't be particularly difficult, I think. It would want to be used pretty briskly and might take some practice, timing the valves' opening - just as you wouldn't want a human crew-weight to dive across the boat sooner than necessary.

But it'd be a slick use of existing space under the side-decks. And what a laugh, when you turn downwind and let the 'crew' weight pour out astern as you plane away...which racing helm hasn't wished he could offload his crew at the windward mark?

 

[maxi77]

I must admit that in my opinion at times when some extra ballast might be useful in most dinghies you have more important things on your mind than trying to get water to flow uphill

 

[Greenheart]

I accept that, Maxi77. And I can't envisage anyone envying a cockpit floor full of whacking great lavatory out-flow pipes!

But...now I'm thinking, suppose I used ten, or even twenty pieces, of that chunky 35mm bathroom piping, set flat on the cockpit floor to communicate between big 'dump-chambers' within the port and starboard seat-tanks.

That way, it wouldn't be necessary to set up a separate valve for every pipe - that'd be silly, even in my book - and I could put a nice grating over the row of pipes, raising the floor by perhaps two inches, rather than a few ugly great grey loo-drains.

I'm guessing that quite a lot of water will pour through a dozen pieces of 35mm pipe, under gravity, even at a gentle angle of heel. I suppose ideally, if the floor was in fact a solid carpet of slender piping, covered by a skin of ply - 15mm in total, perhaps - then the floor wouldn't need to change much in appearance, nor obstruct movement in the boat.

Eg, on starboard tack, once the big starboard dump-valve is opened, water in the starboard seat-tank is free to drain downhill into the 'manifold' of pipes under the floor, just as if the floor were hollow.

Maybe the answer would be spring-loaded exit valves at both ends of each pipe, which could be propped open by the helmsman pushing a lever, this way or that. I can see that simplicity will be key, here!

 

[Pete54]

I went through a somwhat similar set of thoughts and ended up with a Topper Breeze. Sound like it may be too big at 6m but it has a weighty centreboard so always picks itself up (circa 190kg) and sitting out racks which add a huge amount of righting power without hanging from a wire. Sails to a PY of about 940 and mine sports an enormous assymetric so it will keep going in very light airs.

There were two alternaitves I considered - the Ian Proctor design Wildfire - which has a ballasted daggerboard (drop the weighted bags into the aerofoil section) - could n't find one. Or a Tracer keelboat, built by Hunter it has a steel centreboard.

Water ballast is very attractive - until the practicalities have to be addressed - getting it from one side to the other quickly enough is difficult - making valves big enough and reliable is awkward. At the end of the day ballasted centreboards and the like are a lot easier.

 

[Ricd]

There is a range of sailability boats for disabled sailors. These have a center board that floods with water when dropped to aid stability and make them pretty much non cap-sizable ..its got a bit of lead at bottom also. Could imagine a centerboard flooding on the beat and then being pumped out and raised progressively when you go onto a reach and then run.

 

[Greenheart]

Hmm. I'm very interested in ready-made solutions, and the Topper Breeze sounds a winner, except for my budget!

I'm also much inclined towards wood, having reached an age when long winter weeks maintaining the boat at home, are almost as involving as haring along in the midsummer surf! And I don't much like moulded plastic, even if it's light and less effort.

I'm fairly determined to experiment with a plywood dinghy, cheaply, on a carefully considered basis, which I can consign to the bin marked 'it was worth a try' if it all goes bilge-up.

I do believe that modern plumbing solutions, and good old gravity, can be combined in a tough, uncomplicated way to let the equivalent of ten stone in crew weight, be piped in seconds from one side-deck to the other in the moments before tacking, when the boat is still heeled.

No question, I'm likely to get drenched again and again, trying it out on breezy days next spring, but then, I expect the chap who first suggested putting hydrofoils on the Moth's centreboard, received some doubting smirks.

Gybing centreboards, too, and even the elasticated drain-flaps in the transoms of millions of boats out there - these ideas must have been cranky innovations at one time.

I suppose, in spite of my trad taste for wood, a kevlar version would be the ideal proof that water ballast could be an incredibly efficient, useable tool in modern boat handling.

Something like a 505, with those flared side-decks...given a double-floor and 80 litre seat tanks, and a levered valve to allow water to remain on the high side, or be allowed to gush to leeward when the helm says 'ready about', or overboard, downwind.

Well, you can tell I'm convinced.

How does one go about registering a patent?

 

[maxi77]

It does strike me that using gravity to shift the water will result in the ballast being in the wrong place at a critical moment, ie just before the helm goes over. In reality the water needs to be moved just after the boom crosses the centreline, at this point gravity will not help.

 

[Seajet]

It does strike me that using gravity to shift the water will result in the ballast being in the wrong place at a critical moment, ie just before the helm goes over. In reality the water needs to be moved just after the boom crosses the centreline, at this point gravity will not help.

Peter,

I'm used to racing dinghies, and reckon Dan's idea will work fine for an experienced sailor.

I do think the first few tries in a decent wind might make Youtube though !