was the mirror dingy the best little ship ever built?

[Neeves]

really? I’ve always assumed it was to sell newspapers. It probably achieved that aim.

I'd then say that the need of the media to sell hard copy is greater now than then - If the side effect is to get more people on the water, cheaply - perfect.

We occasionally have threads here on how to increase the number of people going the sport/pastime.

I had not realised it was only a project based on buying the kit. I had fondly imagined drawings were supplied and you scaled up on brown paper, or after you had read the Mirror and cut out the pieces.

Who buys hard copy now, of newspaper or magazines?

Why not copy the idea, now.

Jonathan

 

[Concerto]

I had not realised it was only a project based on buying the kit. I had fondly imagined drawings were supplied and you scaled up on brown paper, or after you had read the Mirror and cut out the pieces.

Jonathan

Most Mirrors were sold as pre cut plywood kits, but also available as an unpainted built hull and fully finished. They are now also built in glassfibre but there was a battle to change the class rules. The Mirror class web site has lots more information.

Buy or build a Mirror dinghy - options

A standard GRP Mirror Mk2 interior is available here, but will still set you back about £6000 fully equipped.
Mirror Weekender

For a fully race ready boat with Mk3 interior, expect £9000+
Mirror – Winder boats

 

[LittleSister]

No one has mentioned the Mirror Offshore yet (Oh! they just have ) A wierd little craft & I think that I can only ever recall seeing one.That might have been in the Boating on a Buget hall in the "gods" at the London Boat show. Has anyone got memories of one? Were many built?

I have a soft spot for Mirror Offshores, despite previously having very much turned my nose up at them earlier in my sailing career.

I recall quickly overtaking one on the Tamar decades ago, and noting how sluggish it was and how tubby, and thinking thank goodness I didn't have one of those.

Some years later my needs and tastes changed, I began to appreciate them for what they are, and almost bought one, only pulling out at the last minute when I discovered various botched work on that particular boat by the previous supposedly 'boatbuilder' owner..

The clever Van de Stadt design and styling means they actually carry their bulk rather well, to my eyes. (They remind me of a big fat woman that I used to work with, who had such amazing dress sense and stylish clothes she always looked really elegant.)

The design is deliberately a motor-sailer aimed at people who are learning to sail, and/or will often motor often (not that proper sailors would do such a thing now, would they? ). You don't need to go on the foredeck to attend to the foresail or anchor, just put your head and shoulders out the fore hatch. Small rig and shallow draft (11"?) means slow and not at all close winded, by no surprises or scares for the neophyte sailor and 'his' reluctant family. Notwithstanding that, some impressive journeys have been done in them, e.g UK to the eastern Med, and mainland USA to Hawaii, IIRC .

There was a lovely article in a PBO publication decades ago about the proud long-time owner of a big (for the time) sporty catamaran, who developed some disease of the joints that eventually made it impossible for him to grip and pull ropes or operate winches, etc., and eventually the family very reluctantly sold their boat. A few years later things had improved a little so they tried a dinghy and managed to cope, but missed spending nights aboard, bought a Mirror Offshore - a no stress boat who's rig is no bigger than a dinghy's, and doesn't need winches etc. - and reported loving it and having endless fun and lots of adventures in it.

I think that forgotten article was likely somewhere in the back of my mind when years later I started to consider one. What precipitated it for me was a work colleague had asked me what was the smallest boat he could get to to do a circumnavigation of the UK (he fancied doing in his retirement), and I started pondering. He was thinking motor boat, but I thought the sails would come in handy, even for him, and started to wonder whether a Mirror Offshore might be just the ticket for what I needed at the time - budget being a key criterion, but there were others that it fitted.

One of the boxes they ticked for me was that they were probably the smallest sailing boat in which you got a separate heads compartment. (At least the MK1 was, the MK 2, by a different builder, seemingly foolishly tried to make them something they weren't - faster and more 'modern' - and the separate heads was one of several casualties in that enterprise.) The other was the inboard engine, my having learnt the hard way the shortcomings of using an outboard for serious cruising.

During the period I was pondering getting one, I went along to a sailing club I was considering joining (the Humber Yawl Club). I discovered they had a rule excluding motor boats and motor-sailers (?) from using their berths (I can't remember exact wording or the rule). I asked the very friendly people there whether a Mirror Offshore would be acceptable. They told me it was. There was already one in the club, and the owner, I was told, joined in all their club trips across the North Sea, and despite always being the last home did insist on sailing, rather than motoring. That convinced me that they really could be used for cruising.

Of course, the Mirror Offshore was the boat Dylan Winter started off with for his 'Keep Turning Left' adventures. He called his 'The Slug"! As far as I can recall, it was that boat's unreliable engine, rather than the boat itself, that led him to replace it with something else.

Sooner or later (probably the former, sadly) I will be too broke and/or too decrepit to keep my current boat. Come that day, a Mirror Offshore might be once again just the thing, and if not, then perhaps a Mirror dinghy (except I'd want a super-lightweight, maintenance free, carbon-fibre/kevlar(?) one).

 

[LittleSister]

And of course there was/is also the Miracle dinghy, which I think was was originally called the Mirror 16, which was also a Daily Mirror promotion/Jack Holt design.

I seem to recall it being described as a stretched Mirror. I don't know if that is loose talk, just about the general concept/build, or whether there is actually anything in the hull shape/dimensions to support that claim.

Of course, neither the Mirror Offshore nor the Mirror 16/Miracle were anywhere near the popular success of the original Mirror dinghy, nor did they have the appeal, qualities and influence, etc. that lead Viago to nominate the Mirror dinghy as 'the best little ship ever'.

[erroneous reference to the unrelated Miracle deleted]

 

[Motor_Sailor]

The Miracle and Mirror 16 are completely different boats. The Mirror 16 was a competitor to the Proctor designed Wayfarer and there were 600 or so built from plywood kits.

The Miracle is 12 or 13 feet LOA and was much more popular with thousands being sold.

 

[The Q]

I started off learning in Enterprises before moving onto lasers as getting crew was difficult. Sailed a mirror a couple of times but it was a bit crowded with two large blokes in it.

My dinghy history list,
Enterprise, from RAF Neatishead, sailed at Horning SC, Blakeney, Rutland Water.
Laser, mine, sailed at Horning SC, Benbecula, Dovecot SC , Haversham SC.
Mirror, from RAF Staxton Wold sailed near Scarborough.
Phantom, borrowed, sailed at Haversham SC
Lark, ours, sailed at Haversham SC, Stewartby SC, Horning SC
Laser from RAF Mount Pleasant Sailed at Gull island pond, Falklands.
Osprey hull with non standard rig, ours, sailed at Haversham SC and Horning SC
Wayfarer and laser from BAe SC Half moon bay , Saudi
Norfolk Dinghy, part owner, sailed at Horning SC, Beccles SC, and Norfolk Punt SC

Now I have a 16ft singer handed keel boat ( halfdecker) with 150kg of lead which keeps me upright most of the time.

We've had a retired couple with a heron dinghy turn up at Horning SC for regatta week , they were spending their summers trying to visit as many clubs as possible for the regattas.

Of Horning's regatta , the Next one is 29th 30th August club regatta weekend. Followed by the open regatta 31st July to 4th August 2023.

Here's a video of the 2021 regatta, which being COVID times had lesser numbers.

 

[ashtead]

IN case there are any Mirror owners out there I trust they have the Mirror Mania book which I recall had a wealth of ideas . Our Mirror is still on the IoW but sadly it hasn’t been out on the medina or around Bembridge harbour for many years but far more versatile than toppers,lasers and the like . Op pies seem all the rage now and then something bigger by R S like a Fever Certain based on what I see. I guess a Mirror qualifies now for a classic dinghy racing week somewhere just like classic yacht weeks?

 

[Gixer]

No one has mentioned the Mirror Offshore yet. Has anyone got memories of one? Were many built?

There used to be one moored next to me when I has a drying mooring in a river. It was very much a motor sailer with a big engine for its size. I used to run rings around it on my Westerly Nimrod but this guy had sailed his Offshore from the south coast to the Channel Islands, which is something I would never do in the Nimrod.

 

[johnalison]

I'd then say that the need of the media to sell hard copy is greater now than then - If the side effect is to get more people on the water, cheaply - perfect.

We occasionally have threads here on how to increase the number of people going the sport/pastime.

I had not realised it was only a project based on buying the kit. I had fondly imagined drawings were supplied and you scaled up on brown paper, or after you had read the Mirror and cut out the pieces.

Who buys hard copy now, of newspaper or magazines?

Why not copy the idea, now.

Jonathan

Back in the ‘50s and ‘60s the Mirror was a very different newspaper, back in those pre-Murdoch days. It had serious political commentary and a wide range of interests. It had founded the National Youth Orchestra, and also sponsored an annual children’s art competition. Attitudes towards such things as yachting and culture were not tainted by the inverse snobbery that has now taken over the country.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

... Attitudes towards such things as yachting and culture were not tainted by the inverse snobbery that has now taken over the country.

Succinclty put and to be honest, not obvious today that it was not always like this. In my post on this thread, the Lanark Sailing Schools Association was a pile of comprehensive schools and grammar schools that surrounded an artificial loch, all based in general terms in the Scottish central belt industrial heartland (all long gone). Opportunity was rife and sailing grabbed my interest. The association built the Mirror dinghies, got grants for new Ronda 420s, Wayfares were supplied by Strathclyde Loch, which the public could hire. It was quite an amazing time - teachers could take kids sailing offshore without the bureaucracy of today (not a bad thing), outdoor centres were subsidised and to be frank, over subscribed. The sailing numbers back in the early 80's were high. It was a lot more hoch pot back then. Indeed one sail training vessel was built by Thatchers Youth Opportunity Worker scheme in Strathclyde, a Riva 41C, called East End Endeavour, still sail training today. Access to boats was a big thing. Again, all long gone.

 

[ylop]

I'd then say that the need of the media to sell hard copy is greater now than then -

I think printed paper sales is not actually where the money is - selling advertising is where the money is in media. The printed version is just a branding thing that adds credibility to the online outlets for clickbait!

We occasionally have threads here on how to increase the number of people going the sport/pastime.

I suspect the issue with getting people into sailing is no longer access to a cheap boat - there’s loads of good second hand dinghies around for less than the cost of materials for a simple DIY build.

Who buys hard copy now, of newspaper or magazines?

Actually I still buy magazines (more accurately family who have no idea what else to get me buy me a subscription!). I think with the sailing mags you are preaching to a market who already own (or have access to a boat) and only those who are sufficiently time and cash rich would even consider building a boat in their garage. I suspect the printed newspaper generation are predominantly 50+ and I’m not sure they are looking for something that requires the agility of the mirror!

Why not copy the idea, now.

Jonathan

There’s lots of kits and plans available for DIY construction. Supported with online tutorials, video etc it’s a viable route to make a boat (I had booked on a long weekend build a canoe workshop with my daughter right when lockdown 1 happened). Anyone trying to “compete” in this market not only needs to be better than all the second hand boats, but also be better than all the other kit boats, the options for renting etc and then is either appealing to a niche of people who can sail but want a diy boat or people who have enough interest to build a boat but need to learn to sail.

 

[ylop]

It was quite an amazing time - teachers could take kids sailing offshore without the bureaucracy of today (not a bad thing), outdoor centres were subsidised and to be frank, over subscribed. …..,… Access to boats was a big thing. Again, all long gone.

The teachers strikes in the 80’s killed off a lot of extra curricular activity and I don’t think the government at the time (or indeed those since) really appreciated what they were losing. Covid and the new strikes will be destroying the stuff that was rebuild and without a concerted effort it will take about 30 yrs to recover.

But a friend who works at an outdoor centre with a flotilla of dinghies that rarely get used says that the sailing is quite hard work and labour intensive compared to other outdoor activities - the learning curve is pretty steep compared to abseiling, coasteering/gorge walking, canoeing, tree climbing, etc. the kit also needs more maintenance; the instructor ratios are poorer; the weather dependence higher etc.

 

[Neeves]

My 'education' completely missed the Mirror. My parents subscribed to, bought, the then 'Manchester' Guardian maybe because they liked its Liberal views but maybe also because the Hetheringons, editorial, dynasty (except Lucy?) all went to the same Scottish school as myself and 4 sisters.

Showing my age: In the 50s and 60s I simply did not know anyone, note this is in Scotland, who had ever been on a yacht, or dinghy. Nobody hankered after a yacht - it was never a topic of conversation. People still lived in prefabs or in the cities -tenements In the early 50s - concentrated orange juice was still rationed It was very, very different then.

None of my family sailed, unless you include my Grandfather who was a stoker, in WW1 and I came to sailing late. My father had unrequited ambitions - I realised those ambitions, learning quickly from many inexpensive mistakes on a J24 that my wife and I bought. I never sailed a Mirror but later sailed on skiffs (if that counts) and much, much later on Ethchells. We did 'cruise' the J24, I was used to camping, DofE, but our early sailing was mostly racing, primarily the J24 and then the X-99, "JoXephine of Hong Kong".

Jonathan

 

[Poignard]

[...]


really? I’ve always assumed it was to sell newspapers. It probably achieved that aim.

That was the idea with the Flying Flea aeroplane.

Trouble was, it killed some of those who bought the paper!

 

[RunAgroundHard]

The teachers strikes in the 80’s killed off a lot of extra curricular activity and I don’t think the government at the time (or indeed those since) really appreciated what they were losing. Covid and the new strikes will be destroying the stuff that was rebuild and without a concerted effort it will take about 30 yrs to recover.

But a friend who works at an outdoor centre with a flotilla of dinghies that rarely get used says that the sailing is quite hard work and labour intensive compared to other outdoor activities - the learning curve is pretty steep compared to abseiling, coasteering/gorge walking, canoeing, tree climbing, etc. the kit also needs more maintenance; the instructor ratios are poorer; the weather dependence higher etc.

I taught dinghy sailing at an Outdoor Education Centre, usually dinghy courses were packaged with with other out door activities, rarely as full RYA courses. Specialist centres like Strathclyde Country Park offered full RYA courses and their own certificate courses and of course the various clubs that offered tuition as well. I think it was well meaning teachers and child fatalities that killed off well meaning teachers taking kids out on their yachts et cetera. Back then, no one thought much about risks to children, or assumed that risks were managed. The strike maybe contributed to the end, but legislation and rules is what really created barriers.

Like Neaves's early racing years, that is what my teacher usually did and I think we were useful crew for him to race. We had a right laugh as well, all the Clyde races, some Irish races and underaged drinking. No wonder rules and regulations developed.

 

[lustyd]

not much to aspire to in a video game

Really? You don't know a lot about the gaming industry, do you? There are people commentating on games that earn $1M/year let alone playing them. Plenty to aspire to in gaming if you take the time to understand the industry.

 

[ylop]

I taught dinghy sailing at an Outdoor Education Centre, usually dinghy courses were packaged with with other out door activities, rarely as full RYA courses.

indeed, but the message I got was to run a dinghy session for a dozen kids needs more people than to take them gorge walking or canoeing. The time/effort to get qualified as a sailing instructor is also higher than to become an instructor in a lot of other activities. (they can teach an outdoor instructor from another discipline to be a MTB or canoe instructor quite quickly but a sail instructor takes much more).

I think it was well meaning teachers and child fatalities that killed off well meaning teachers taking kids out on their yachts et cetera.

I don’t think it is So much the risk /health and safety that is the barrier or even the perception as the barrier - it’s the child protection/safeguarding issues of taking kids away in close proximity with one adult.

The strike maybe contributed to the end, but legislation and rules is what really created barriers.

The strike (and associated work to rule) stopped teachers from running organised out of school activities. I work with schools in a different sport and it’s a real issue again, “I’d love to bring the kids to that event but we are working to rule and we wouldn’t be back until after the normal school day, perhaps we can do it next year”. (The motivation of all the non-teachers involved drops off and so those volunteers are saying “with the reduced turn out I’m not sure it’s worth the effort”). Covid has exacerbated this as teachers who had got into the habbit of running particular clubs suddenly were unable to and discovered free time - and are not so keen to give that up, or have retired without passing over the reins. Even finding teachers who are qualified to drive the minibus is difficult.

Like Neaves's early racing years, that is what my teacher usually did and I think we were useful crew for him to race. We had a right laugh as well, all the Clyde races, some Irish races and underaged drinking. No wonder rules and regulations developed.

You may well be right about adhoc stuff on own boats. I recall going to cross country races in a teachers own car. If you want to see horror on a teachers face ask them if they could give one or two pupils a lift somewhere.

 

[The Q]

There was a schools sailing base at Ludham from 1968 to 1995 which was sold off by the council to raise money. Luckily a trust raised the money to keep the fleet and you can hire the boats.
History - Hunter's Yard
There is a Norfolk Schools Sailing Association who teach kids at Filby broad, but it is entirely volunteer run,
Norfolk Schools Sailing Association | Filby Broad not directly funded by the council.

My club Horning SC teach kids every Thursday afternoon evening in the summer. Often there are 80 registered . It's very popular. There are often adults being taught too..
Horning Sailing Club
There are a couple of Mirrors still at the club. But mostly they use the various plastic boats of a similar size. River sailing and racing is not kind to plywood boats..

 

[LittleSister]

The Miracle and Mirror 16 are completely different boats. . .

I stand corrected.

(Though I might prefer lying down! )

I guess that some point down the line I confused myself with both being designed by Jack Holt and the similarity of the 'M' of the sail insignia.

 

[Wansworth]

I have a soft spot for Mirror Offshores, despite previously having very much turned my nose up at them earlier in my sailing career.

I recall quickly overtaking one on the Tamar decades ago, and noting how sluggish it was and how tubby, and thinking thank goodness I didn't have one of those.

Some years later my needs and tastes changed, I began to appreciate them for what they are, and almost bought one, only pulling out at the last minute when I discovered various botched work on that particular boat by the previous supposedly 'boatbuilder' owner..

The clever Van de Stadt design and styling means they actually carry their bulk rather well, to my eyes. (They remind me of a big fat woman that I used to work with, who had such amazing dress sense and stylish clothes she always looked really elegant.)

The design is deliberately a motor-sailer aimed at people who are learning to sail, and/or will often motor often (not that proper sailors would do such a thing now, would they? ). You don't need to go on the foredeck to attend to the foresail or anchor, just put your head and shoulders out the fore hatch. Small rig and shallow draft (11"?) means slow and not at all close winded, by no surprises or scares for the neophyte sailor and 'his' reluctant family. Notwithstanding that, some impressive journeys have been done in them, e.g UK to the eastern Med, and mainland USA to Hawaii, IIRC .

There was a lovely article in a PBO publication decades ago about the proud long-time owner of a big (for the time) sporty catamaran, who developed some disease of the joints that eventually made it impossible for him to grip and pull ropes or operate winches, etc., and eventually the family very reluctantly sold their boat. A few years later things had improved a little so they tried a dinghy and managed to cope, but missed spending nights aboard, bought a Mirror Offshore - a no stress boat who's rig is no bigger than a dinghy's, and doesn't need winches etc. - and reported loving it and having endless fun and lots of adventures in it.

I think that forgotten article was likely somewhere in the back of my mind when years later I started to consider one. What precipitated it for me was a work colleague had asked me what was the smallest boat he could get to to do a circumnavigation of the UK (he fancied doing in his retirement), and I started pondering. He was thinking motor boat, but I thought the sails would come in handy, even for him, and started to wonder whether a Mirror Offshore might be just the ticket for what I needed at the time - budget being a key criterion, but there were others that it fitted.

One of the boxes they ticked for me was that they were probably the smallest sailing boat in which you got a separate heads compartment. (At least the MK1 was, the MK 2, by a different builder, seemingly foolishly tried to make them something they weren't - faster and more 'modern' - and the separate heads was one of several casualties in that enterprise.) The other was the inboard engine, my having learnt the hard way the shortcomings of using an outboard for serious cruising.

During the period I was pondering getting one, I went along to a sailing club I was considering joining (the Humber Yawl Club). I discovered they had a rule excluding motor boats and motor-sailers (?) from using their berths (I can't remember exact wording or the rule). I asked the very friendly people there whether a Mirror Offshore would be acceptable. They told me it was. There was already one in the club, and the owner, I was told, joined in all their club trips across the North Sea, and despite always being the last home, and did insist on sailing, rather than motoring. That convinced me that they really could be used for cruising.

Of course, the Mirror Offshore was the boat Dylan Winter started off with for his 'Keep Turning Left' adventures. He called his 'The Slug"! As far as I can recall, it was that boat's unreliable engine, rather than the boat itself, that led him to replace it with something else.

Sooner or later (probably the former, sadly) I will be too broke and/or too decrepit to keep my current boat. Come that day, a Mirror Offshore might be once again just the thing, and if not, then perhaps a Mirror dinghy (except I'd want a super-lightweight, maintenance free, carbon-fibre/kevlar(?) one).

Great post