Was I wrong?

[PaulR]

Saturday-little wind and had motored from Portsmouth to Chichester and in over the bar-as we motored towards Itchenor Reach gentle breeze so off engine and started to sail, making between 4-5 knots, various others sailing too.

Itchenor reach a fetch and pleasant sail with my 9 year old daughter helming our 34' boat whilst I kept watch on one side (looking down leeward side) and my wife windward side, occasional gusts and speed into 5+ knots, off Chichester Marina/Birdham pool engine back on, rounded up and stowed sails before berthing at waiting pontoon whilst waiting lock in.

More than a little taken aback when in the marina masters office paying for the night was approached by chap from c25' motor boat that had been motoring along Ichenor reach at same speed as we had sailed and who complimented my daughter on her helming and then told me "you shouldn't have been sailing there- good thing the harbour master didn't see you!" I asked him why as to the best of my knowledge there is no restriction on sailing (other than using spinnakers) along Itchenor Reach, and his response " not good seamanship - what if someone had come out into the channel ahead of you?"

I checked with the marina master who confirmed that there was no restriction on sailing along the reach or elsewhere in the harbour.

Thought about the motorboaters comments afterwards and accept that if someone had blocked the width of the reach could have been a problem but conditions were relatively gentle, very few boats around and of those that were several were sailing, we were not travelling terribly quickly (same speed as motorboater) , was a straight/close fetch so we could easily luff up or bear away if need be and could roll away our jib easily if needed, so my question is was I wrong?

Ironically next day windy so motored the length of the Itchenor Reach and having cleared the moorings caught something round our prop and had to sail the rest of the way!

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[duncan]

as a 25ft motorboater (but not that one) I would have to say 'no' - you were not wrong.

probably another good example of understanding the differences in handling the different classes.

To him, you sailing with all that 'drive' and some 6 tonnes odd (?) and obviously restricted ability to manoevre easily, would seem like an accident waiting to happen. You however realise that the col regs were designed to cover your circumstances iie you are not expected to make difficult direction changes, and that you can actually slow down and/or change direction a lot faster than he would believe. We are used to having to stop, go sideways, jump out of the water etc on demand from dingy's - and sometimes find it a little difficult to comply with only an engine/wheel to manage!
There can be situations that apply the other way but that's not for here!

This of course takes the conditions, crowding etc at face value.

Sorry to hear about catching the prop; enjoy the moments.



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[boatless]

No, you were under sail and would have rights over any powered boat entering the channel, and a sailing dinghy is likely to have seen you and made allowances even if they have rights. Just leaves the rowing dinghy. Well, it wouldn't make much of a scratch!

Had a friend who used to sail a Swallow at Itchenor, who, having been warned for the umpteenth time by the HM, flew a spinnaker on very long sheet, guy and halyard, so that HM couldn't work out which Swallow it was.

<hr width=100% size=1>my opinion is complete rubbish, probably.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by boatless on 19/04/2004 20:23 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[bigmart]

As a Raggie who sails in Chichester Harbour I have to say that I don't think you were wrong however, I personally, do not like or approve of Sailing in areas as restricted as Itchenor Reach. Perhaps having youre engine running, as you must when entering Porstmouth Harbour, would have been appropriate. You do at least have the ability to slow you progress dramatically if some idiot pops out between some moored boats & causes a problem.

The French seem rather keen in demonstrating their prowess by sailing in tight places. I have seen a Forty footer tacking like a mad thing in the Marina at Cherbourg. It may be brave & it may be a demonstration of skill but I do not consider it good seamanship. Surely a good seaman has his eye on all potential dangers & takes sensible precautions.

Please don't think that I am suggesting you were that negligent but maybe you understand my points.

Martin

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[Magic_Sailor]

You were only wrong if you put yourself into a situation you couldn't get out of safely. If you've got the capability and confidence - go ahead.

It's a lovely place to sail up.

Magic

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://practical-business.co.uk>Click for website!</A>

 

[CharlotteRusse]

As as an Itchenor reach resident, I have to say I am sometimes a little surprised to see some realy rather large (40 ft+) boats sailing up the centre channel, overtaking Mobos and anything else in their way. In general though loads of people sail up there with no problem. Just don't hit my boat!

Having suffered engine failure in mid channel, I think having some sail power to hand, may actually be the safer option.

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[oldharry]

No, you were not 'wrong' in the strict sense of the harbour rules. However there is a standing 'request' from the Harbour Board that yachts do not sail up the channel through the moorings. I do not know of it ever being enforced, and have to admit to having sailed through a good few times unchallenged when the wind is fair when I had a mooring at Dell Quay.

You can see their point: half a dozen 30something footers all tacking up past the hard and the ISC..... and I'll be there with my video camera!

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[Jeremy_W]

I can't see how you were doing anything wrong. You were keeping a good lookout; developing the skill and confidence of your daughter as a helm in mild/ moderate conditions and light traffic; you had undertaken an informal but adequate risk assessment of the situation; you had a clear plan of action to deal with problems that might arise....

One day you might foul your prop and have to sail that stretch of water without the option of switching on the engine. Far better to have practised in benign conditions. If you wanted to motor everywhere you could have bought a powerboat!

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[Becky]

I must say that your comments are at odds with the activities of Itchenor Sailing Club who regularly sail in this area, especially as the Swallows etc don't have engines anyway. And this is where they moor up. I have sailed here for the last year and I sail single-handed up the reach as do many others. There is no restriction to sailing along this stretch of water that I have ever been made aware of. Most people motor because one seems to always be plugging a foul tide, and to get anywhere Solent-wise (don't you love these Americanisms?) you have to be out of the Harbour when the West-going tide begins to make any distance. It is fun to sail in these awkward areas, especially during the school holidays when there seem to be thousands of dinghys. Gives one a sense of achievement to be able to miss them all.

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[graham]

In my opinion the worsed example of bad seamanship is a motorboat with no auxillary engine.

A huge number of lifeboat"rescues"are to brokendown motorboats who with a small outboard as an auxillary could have recovered themselves.

You were behaving in a responsible way ,keeping an allround lookout with a serviceable motor ready for use.

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[duncan]

as a 25ft motorboater without an auxially engine (most of the year)................

no I am not going to be drawn into this!

Hope the answers you got have helped Paul; enjoy a great year under sail.

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[brianhumber]

Re: Please take care

Also in the Reach and agree with CharlotteRusse.

I would also add I have had to change 8 bent stanchion posts over the years I have been on the Reach and not a single note to say sorry just the paint deposits on the hull.

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[trev]

Seems to me the motor boater had a gap in his knowlege but thought he knew it all !

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[robp]

Others have answered your question, pretty much as one. It would be a shame if one couldn't sail, as very often the best sail of the day is up Itchenor Reach - and on starboard. (It at least sort's out 50% of the dinghys' - lol). It might be prudent and give some comfort to know that the engine is already running but be aware that the one thing that Chi Harbour Conservancy does enforce, is the motor sailing cone!

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[oldharry]

Re: motoring/sailing through the moorings.

Becky: read your harbour regulations, page 62 of the current Harbour Guide:

Byelaw No.4 section c requests "large vessels... should be under power at busy periods;" Note use of the word 'should' so it is not mandatory, but a simple safety precaution, which clearly does not apply to the Swallows, X Boats etc, which are in no way in the category of 'large vessels'

And I am very sorry but: <It is fun to sail in these awkward areas, especially during the school holidays when there seem to be thousands of dinghys. Gives one a sense of achievement to be able to miss them all. > strikes me as the height of bad seamanship, because the way many behave (being young they cannot appreciate that several tons of long keeler can not be stopped or turned like a mirror dinghy) means they place themselves and you at grave risk if you are not under full control of your boat!

I have nothing against youngsters sailing - very much the opposite indeed, but to sail a large boat through a novice fleet in such confined waters is just asking for an accident. And sadly each year there are a number of incidents when it has not been possible to '..miss them all'!
I am only thankful no one has been drowned yet - but its only a matter of time if larger boat owners do not make allowance for the youngsters.

If you think I am over-reacting, consider this: a Mirror tacked unexpectedly, and dangerously close across my bows when I was bringing a heavy long keeler down the reach. I had already slowed to the point where I was in danger of losing steerage way altogether - dodgy on a running tide in such confined waters. But did they REALLY have to tack back again and so catch their boom in my bobstay? had I been under sail, a collision would have been unavoidable, and the youngsters would have been in the water. Or the Topper that altered course to cross close under my bows not realising my boat was a large Catamaran ..... those 2 did get wet, but were OK

And I am sad to say the 1st lot had come off the ISC jetty.... and this sort of episode is repeated in some form on many weekends.

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[pcv]

Re: motoring/sailing through the moorings.

Hi

Just thought I would add my opinion, and thats what it is not based on rules codes ect.

First I dont know the area and have never sailed there. but I think that the time is
close or we are already there that to sail within restricted waters weather we have the
right or not, when we have an alternative means of propulsion, is or could be looked
apone unfavorably by other users (motorboater) and as said what if .

My sailing is out of Dartmouth and although I could sail in and out of the harbor I
chose not to, as the what if comes into it.

Pete

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