Was Childers a traitor?

Hmm...he wasn't executed for treason, I thought but for gun-running, and was executed by the newly independent Irish Free state not the British.

My grandfather was part of the Irish Free State Army when it was formed after WW1 and the IRA was officially disbanded and a lot of the early work was a pretty ruthless, but legal, put down of those who wanted to continue the war of independence as they didn't agree with peace via partition.

Great writer, clearly very brave, but a rebel who keeps on fighting after his leaders agree to stop wont have a long and happy future even if they turn out to be right in the long term.
 
If you have not read it, you may like to get 'A Thirst for the Sea. The Sailing Adventures of Erskine Childers', ed. by Hugh and Robin Popham, Stanford Maritime, London, 1979. It contains virtually all he wrote about sailing, including the log from which he created The Riddle of the Sands, but also a brief biographical chapter (which his son described in a Foreword as '... an unlooked for bonus of this book ...'). Out of print I think but s/h copies advertised on the web.
 
Dear Mr Winter
You seem obsessed by conspiracy theory this month. First Arthur Ransome and now Mr Childers.
I can only conclude that an excess of Duck-punting has caused an imbalance in your normally keen mind.
Perhaps you might address the issue of my previous post regarding the quadrants of engines? You seem conspicuous by your absence from that particular thread.
 
They shoot horses, don't they.
Childers was the fwifteft horfe that ever ran at Newmarket. Completely unbeaten 18th Century and ancestor to most of the form book Try google.
Posted by the one-time navigating officer of HMS Childers.
We had the history of both man and horse on board.
My own version of the documents is that any person who apparently jumps from side to side is going to cop it from someone.
He was shot by the Irish. But which Irish. ? The Itish have always done the english nation's dirty work.
Oh, and the RCC did not shhot him , not shop him. He is very highly regarded among members.
 
claymore said:
Dear Mr Winter
You seem obsessed by conspiracy theory this month. First Arthur Ransome and now Mr Childers.
I can only conclude that an excess of Duck-punting has caused an imbalance in your normally keen mind.
Perhaps you might address the issue of my previous post regarding the quadrants of engines? You seem conspicuous by your absence from that particular thread.
Click to expand...


I was seeking to clarify the Childers story


I had always thought that he was a gun runner shot for being a traitor


I mentioned him on my website and was criticised for suggesting such a thing - by a man named Liam

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/blogs/arthur-ransome-traitorous-short-tempered-mouse-breeder/



the original blog, where I mentioned Childers was a book review about a book concerning Ransome

as a diligent hack I always read and then blog about the books people send me

it only seems polite

and

that way people send me more books

if you are interested - the book in question is called the last Englishman.

It suggests that Ransome (who some on here believe walked on water) was a double agent

and that makes him a traitor.... either to the Brits or the Russkis - probably both



whatever the rights and wrongs of his morals

and

his inabiility to write about sailing without being patronising

and

being unable to keep his temper

one thing I can safely say about him, hopefully without being shot down on this forum is that he was a damn fine mouse-breeder and had many trophies for his skills in that department

So Ransome was a hero asnd giant among mous-breeders





and as for duck punts

I beleive that they are an utter transport of delight that allows me to get afloat when it is too rough on the Humber

the punt keeps me happy and up-beat and I can reach places that are normally regarded as being unnavigable




as for quadrants....

pah! I have an outboard now

all that cabling, climbing into lockers, repairing machinery that is half a century old is behind me
 
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dylanwinter said:
no-one can gainsay the fact that he was a damn fine mouse-breeder and had many trophies for his skills in that department
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How do you measure the skills of a mouse-breeder? Surely mouse breeding just consists of putting mummy mouse and daddy mouse in a box and periodically removing the excess mouses?

Or do they have a little mousey Crufts where women in gilets measure mice against a set of pointless and obscure rules?

I think we should be told.

Pete
 
I always imagined he was shot by his own mates for not towing the party line, not unknown in Irish politics.

I doubt if the pointed end of the Free State forces gave a flying fig about the opinions of the British Government.
 
prv said:
How do you measure the skills of a mouse-breeder? Surely mouse breeding just consists of putting mummy mouse and daddy mouse in a box and periodically removing the excess mouses?

Or do they have a little mousey Crufts where women in gilets measure mice against a set of pointless and obscure rules?

I think we should be told.

Pete
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Mock ye not

http://www.thenationalmouseclub.co.uk/breeds.php

THE GENERAL STANDARD OF EXCELLENCE

"The mouse must be long on body with long clean head, not too fine or pointed at the nose, the eyes should be large, bold and prominent. The ears large and tulip shaped, free from creases, carried erect with plenty of width between them. The body should be long and slim, a trifle arched over the loin and racy in appearance; the tail, which must be free from kinks should come well out of the back and be thick at the root or set-on, gradually tapering like a whip lash to a fine end, the length being about equal to that of the mouse's body. Unless the variety standard states otherwise, the coat should be short perfectly smooth, glossy and sleek to the hand. The mouse should be perfectly tractable and free from any vice and not subject to fits or other similar ailments. A mouse with absence of whiskers, blind in one or both eyes, carrying external parasites, having a tumour, sore or patches of fur missing, suffering from any obvious disease or deformity or kinked tail shall be disqualified."
GENERAL REMARKS

Written standards are necessarily under some limitation. Words cannot convey an exact idea of what any mouse should look like. This applies with special force to the definition of colour. Attendance at shows is urged upon all who wish to form a precise picture of any variety and it cannot be too strongly stated that nothing can take the place of inspection of specimen mice.
 
dylanwinter said:
"The mouse must be long on body with long clean head, not too fine or pointed at the nose, the eyes should be large, bold and prominent.
[...]
it cannot be too strongly stated that nothing can take the place of inspection of specimen mice.

Mock ye not
Click to expand...

I think I shall mock more vigorously after that! :)

Clearly there is a kind of bizarre mouse-crufts, though the writing you quote reads more like a man with a small moustache and unfashionable spectacles than a doggy woman in a gilet.

Pete
 
prv said:
I think I shall mock more vigorously after that! :)

Clearly there is a kind of bizarre mouse-crufts, though the writing you quote reads more like a man with a small moustache and unfashionable spectacles than a doggy woman in a gilet.

Pete
Click to expand...


careful how you go

you will be placed on some sort of Ransomista death list
 
Ok, in all seriousness, Childers was executed by the Irish Free State during the civil war that followed southern Irelands split with the north, and the UK. Childers continued to campaign for a united free Ireland, whilst the Free State was determined to hold onto what had been gained. Childers last months were spent essentially as the Republican press officer writing propaganda against the Free State. However he was seen as a military threat (having served in the Boer War and the First World War) and was accused by the Free State of taking part in Republican actions against them.

After the Assassination of Michael Collins there was no one left in the hierarchy of the Free State who would stand up for Childers and what he had done for Ireland and so he was hunted down, arrested and shot, ostensibly for the possession of a pistol (which was ironically a gift from Michael Collins.)

The British as far as I'm aware had no hand in his death. If anything the speed at which he was executed was more to do with preventing anyone having the time to drum up opposition to the execution of one of the most pivotal characters in the independence of Ireland.

Quite what action the British would have liked to have taken on behalf of his gun running antics I don't know. But since he was raised an Irishman, if not actually born one I can sympathise with his actions. He did have a very fine taste in boats too.
 
binch said:
Oh, and the RCC did not shhot him , not shop him. He is very highly regarded among members.
Click to expand...
It was a joke. I'm well aware of his reputation amongst the club and there's actually a brief biography on him in the most recent newsletter. The reasons for his execution given are largely as I've written above.
 
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