WARNING WARNING. ICI Epoxy Primer Supplied by Coppercoat

[Sandyman]

Just been talking to chap here in Faro who has been waiting 3 weeks for a weather window to apply Coppercoat,
which he purchased at SIBS this year. As well as the Coppercoat, they supplied 2 different epoxy primers manufactured by ICI
for application prior to the coppercoat. One coloured black & one grey.
He could find no info as to which epoxy primer to apply first so phoned Coppercoat to seek advise.
Once it was established when he had bought the product they informed him they had been having a problem with a batch of BLACK epoxy primer in that it had not been setting properly.
Chap was somewhat miffed to say the least that they had not contacted him either by phone or e-mail to warn him.
Cant say I blame him. Can you imagine the work involve in removing all that wet paint from a 40' hull?

I know its unlikely peeps in the UK will be doing such work this time of year, but if you recently made such a purchase,
perhaps for application in the Spring, my advise would be to check with Coppercoat first.

 

[ripvan1]

That's tough luck - although my first reaction was did he use a catalyst or were the 2 primers supposed to be mixed ?

 

[VicMallows]

That's tough luck - although my first reaction was did he use a catalyst or were the 2 primers supposed to be mixed ?

Read the original post properly

 

[ripvan1]

Read the original post properly

ERR - Which part Vic ? - I did say "first reaction" so big raspberry to you sir. Follow your own advice perhaps?

 

[VicS]

ERR - Which part Vic ? - I did say "first reaction" so big raspberry to you sir. Follow your own advice perhaps?

So what then is your second opinion having realised that the first reaction is total cobblers .

 

[macd]

So what then is your second opinion having realised that the first reaction is total cobblers .

...that his first reaction was cobblers?

 

[Sandyman]

That's tough luck - although my first reaction was did he use a catalyst or were the 2 primers supposed to be mixed ?

Maybe I didn't make it clear. The chappie was told the BLACK epoxy primer when mixed with the catalyst, didn't cure properly.

 

[[70521]]

Chap was somewhat miffed to say the least that they had not contacted him either by phone or e-mail to warn him.

I wonder how the chap expected that he would be contacted; do they do full batch tracability?

Well done Coppercoat for pointing out the problem once the chap made contact.

 

[Sandyman]

I wonder how the chap expected that he would be contacted; do they do full batch tracability?

Well done Coppercoat for pointing out the problem once the chap made contact.

I think this chap might have had a claim against them if they hadn't.
I don't think it beyond Coppercoat to contact its recent customers to advise them of a problem once it is known.
At least put out a press statement for sites like this. Maybe playing damage limitation.

 

[Spirit of Glenans]

AFAIK the primers are contrasting in colour so that missed spots in the second coat can be detected, or perhaps, if sanding back is involved, it's an indicator of the depth of sanding?

 

[Sandyman]

AFAIK the primers are contrasting in colour so that missed spots in the second coat can be detected, or perhaps, if sanding back is involved, it's an indicator of the depth of sanding?

I believe that is the case. Sounds logical. Watching in the lovely sunshine chappie is now applying the grey primer.

 

[macd]

Maybe I didn't make it clear. The chappie was told the BLACK epoxy primer when mixed with the catalyst, didn't cure properly.

Realise you're not the horse's mouth, Sandyman, but are they definitely primers and if so, why two? Contrasting colours are more common in build coats, not to see where you might have missed before, but to ensure that everywhere gets the desired number of coats. Imagine painting white on white.
And just to be accurate, catalysts are not used with epoxies. Hardeners are. Not nit-picking: there's a world of difference.

 

[ripvan1]

So what then is your second opinion having realised that the first reaction is total cobblers .

Second opinion is that that I've seen epoxy applied without catalyst and it was as the OP described. Third opinion is that v
VM & VS could be same persona - not that I give a fig.

 

[Sandyman]

Realise you're not the horse's mouth, Sandyman, but are they definitely primers and if so, why two? Contrasting colours are more common in build coats, not to see where you might have missed before, but to ensure that everywhere gets the desired number of coats. Imagine painting white on white.
And just to be accurate, catalysts are not used with epoxies. Hardeners are. Not nit-picking: there's a world of difference.

Can only report as I see & hear Folks.

 

[macd]

Second opinion is that that I've seen epoxy applied without catalyst...

So have I. In fact that's the norm. You can probably winkle why out of post #12

 

[VicMallows]

Third opinion is that v
VM & VS could be same persona - not that I give a fig.

Carry on digging the hole

 

[jdc]

As I'm just about to have my boat Coppercoated (albeit in a warm, environmentally controlled, shed by a contractor specifically recommended by CC themselves) you can imagine that I'm interested in this subject!

However the thread rings some alarm bells; ICI paints, and their brands such as Dulux, were acquired by Akzo-Nobel in January 2008. akzo also own International Paints. So was the ICI brand name really on a tin of paint bought in September 2014?

In addition, such companies are ISO9000 registered and have very extensive QA systems and requirements to recall products, inform purchasers and to do root-cause analysis on any escape of substandard product. Google search reveals no recall or customer special advisory notes on 'epoxy primer' and 'ICI' or 'International Paints' or 'Akzo-Nobel', other than this thread of course.

So have you any more information? If you can see the chap painting, can you ask to look at the label on the tin?

 

[Sandyman]

As I'm just about to have my boat Coppercoated (albeit in a warm, environmentally controlled, shed by a contractor specifically recommended by CC themselves) you can imagine that I'm interested in this subject!

However the thread rings some alarm bells; ICI paints, and their brands such as Dulux, were acquired by Akzo-Nobel in January 2008. akzo also own International Paints. So was the ICI brand name really on a tin of paint bought in September 2014?

In addition, such companies are ISO9000 registered and have very extensive QA systems and requirements to recall products, inform purchasers and to do root-cause analysis on any escape of substandard product. Google search reveals no recall or customer special advisory notes on 'epoxy primer' and 'ICI' or 'International Paints' or 'Akzo-Nobel', other than this thread of course.

So have you any more information? If you can see the chap painting, can you ask to look at the label on the tin?

Apologies I didn't think to try and get or even post any batch numbers. Can still see him painting away so will go investigate.
Back soon

 

[Sandyman]

Sorry going to have to say 'watch this space' Chappie is busy applying a primer he bought in Olhao this morning
only to find its use by date was 1987, once he had mixed it. Its setting off rather quickly

He's going to pop the details over to me once he has finished for the day & cleaned up.

 

[macd]

Can only report as I see & hear Folks.

Self-evidently so, which is why I prefaced the post to which you replied with: "Realise you're not the horse's mouth, Sandyman,..."

But more importantly, sorry to hear of your mate's woes. As well as the ICI ones, his recent experience with two-pack epoxy over a quarter century old is salutary. Out-of-date stock (if not often that out-of-date) is commonplace in Southern Europe, no matter how reputable the brand in question. Always worth checking before purchase. (Which doesn't help your mate, I know.)