Warning For Nissan Owners

[Alistairr]

I run a year old Nissan Navara Pickup, It was in the garage on Wednesday getting serviced, and i asked them to look at the 4WD transmission, as i was getting terrible vibrations, only when in 4WD.
The garage reported that the nearside front Alloy, had a small chip in it, and that may be causing it, and they won't take it further till its replaced. Rubbish i said, But what do i know, so i said fine order me a new Alloy and we'll see if that cures it, and if it doesn't then you can investigate more.

Well this morning the garage phoned to say thats the new wheel in and ready for fitting, But they'd better tell me the cost, ok, go on hit me with it???

"£650 And thats heavily discounted Sir"
/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif What, I only wanted one, not a full set!!!!!!!! But that is only for one!!..

So i said Forget it. I'll put the spare on and get the alloy repaired and then you can investigate the transmission.

The moral of this useless story, Is Don't ding an Alloy on a Nissan!!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[BarryH]

Alistairr....without being rude you must have a glass willy coz they saw you coming mate. The worst a chipped alloy will do is put the wheel out of balance. Even then it would be more like a chunk than a chip.
Vibration when in 4 whell drive sounds more like drive train probs. Not knowing the nerdvana, is it perm 4X4 with center diff lock or have you selective box on it?
Anyhow if its only a year old is it not still under warrenty?

 

[Alistairr]

Yes, it is still under warranty, thats why i asked them to investigate it.
They say it could be down to the damaged rim. And NO i don't believe that, But they won't warrant any claim till they've checked to see if thats the problem.
The damaged wheel was my fault, but it ain't that bad, its a small chip/chunk whatever and never lets air out.
The Navara is 2WD, with selectional 4WD Hi and 4WD Lo.

I usually run it in 2WD, but get a lot of vibration and shuddering, when i put in 4WD.

 

[BarryH]

Are you on Tarmac/firm ground when this happens?

 

[Alistairr]

Yes, I use the 4WD while on the roads sometimes, to keep me in a straight line in the pissing rain.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

If by 'alloy' you mean the wheel, than it is defenitely impossible to have vibrations only in 4wd.
If a wheel is out of balance, it would cause vibrations depending on the speed only regardless of 2wd or 4wd.
Like BarryH says, it sounds like drive train problems. Maybe as this is usually expensive they try to avoid a repair under warranty???

 

[BarryH]

Sounds like transmision wind to me. Shouldn't really engage 4wd on the road unless you've got a cntr diff that can be unlocked/locked. Sounds as if its the way your using it rather than the motor itself. In extreme case of trans wind up you'll lock all four wheels. And how does having it in 4wd keep it straight?

 

[GrahamR]

This maybe a bit stupid but has anyone seen if the wheels are out of balance b4 checking anything else ? If it is the wheel i can put you in touch with some one who does alloywheel repairs and not £650 quid

 

[ari]

If it were the wheel than it'd be doing it irrespective of whether it was in 2wd or 4wd. An out of balance wheel is out of balance full stop, it doesn't magically rebalance as you engage 2wd.

I agree with the comment above, transmission wind-up. When you turn the front and rear wheels describe slightly different radiuses and so the wheels are turning at slightly different speeds. If there is no centre diff to compensate for this then the juddering will be the wheels fighting against each other as they turn at slightly different rates.

On less sophicticated off road vehicles the 4wd should only be engaged in very slippery conditions such as mud or snow, its not meant as an on road performance handling enhancement.

 

[Alistairr]

It says in the Manual that 4WD can be engaged while driving, No need to stop, and is okay to cruise in 4WD at speeds upto 95MPH.

What do you mean by 'Wind up'?? When manouvering it slowly like on the slip or off road, It seems that all for wheels are locked with NO diff, If i put full lock on the steering, the wheels on the inside try to skip/slip on the surface, which makes me believe that the diff is locked. There is also a lot of drag, in 4WD, the car will not roll on its own at all, if you move off slowly, its as if you are trying to drive off with the handbrake still on.

 

[Alistairr]

The wheels are all balanced okay.

I had them checked last week, when i had 2 punctures repaired.

 

[BarryH]

Hmmm jap manual.......lets see I bet they spell "Tyres" as "tires". Forget the manual most of them are crap. Trans wind up as described above. Two axles working against each other. Like you said it don't want to roll when in 4wd. As for the 95mph yeas on a loose surface not on the road. Its "should" tell you in the manual about driving with 4wd on different surfaces. Oh and as for driving in the rain.....slow down! Its easier on the car and you live longer!

 

[omega2]

change the wheels around, i.e backs on the front and then check for vibes

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Surely you dont have to buy a new alloy just to find out whether the wheel is causing the problem. Wont the garage take one off another vehicle and try the vehicle with the new wheel? My local dealer did that for my car when I was moaning about wheel bearing noise
As for £650 for a new wheel, thats an outrage, even more than Merc charge for an AMG alloy. I've just bought some original Merc non-AMG alloys for £180 a corner

 

[Alistairr]

Yes, i think the dealer is basically looking for excuses not to investigate the problem further. I told them this morning that i would put the spare on, then bring it to them to Investigate the problem again.

BarryH, If i have damaged the transmission after following what the book says, then i dam sure they will replace anything thats gone wrong. The other point is, it does say, only tow trailers in 4WD mode, and i'm sure thats the same for Shogun users.
I just cannae win.

Thanks for all the info though.

 

[Roy]

Souns to me like your wotsit has got discambooberatted from the spinny thing - common problem with 4x4 truckies.

 

[BrendanS]

There are two types of 4wd. Some are only designed for off road use, and if used on a hard surface will suffer from wind up. Others are designed for use on road as well as off road, and shouldn't suffer wind up on the road (my jeep has a combination, I've got modes for on road and off road, and like you I can shift in and out of 4x4 whilst driving at speed on the road)

The issue would seem to be either that you are getting wind up (which shouldn't be happening in road mode 4x4, which yours certainly is) and needs sorting, or the vibration is occuring due to another reason and also needs sorting.

 

[BarryH]

No Brendan, what you really mean to say is that there's "proper" 4x4's then theres the "psudo" 4x4 posemobiles. Now your either in 4wd or not. Basically what you've got is either cntr diff with manual lock or a viscous coupling in place of the diff. Not knowing what the Nerdvana has got prompted me to sak the hard/soft surface question.
As for the manual sayi ng only tow trailers in 4wd is bollox....IMHO. Quickest way to kill a set of tyres....oopps sorry its Jap.....Tires. Why you'd want it in 4wd on a slip, unless its slippy or shingle, is beyond me.

So, Alistairr, have you got manual trans or is it auto? Have you got a diff lock? In a pikey wagon Pajero I borrowed there were freewheeling hubs on the front. Has yours got these or not?

 

[AJW]

Are you sure that the manual really says only tow in 4x4 mode?

You have a part time 4x4 set up - drive to rear wheels and then front wheels engaged when you select 4hi or 4low. This differs from the permanent 4x4 set up on say a Disco or RR where all 4 wheels are driven but there is a centre diff to let each wheel move at a different speed as you turn. If you use part time 4x4 on a really grippy surface e.g. dry road then you will get axle wind up as described and ultimately could break your drivetrain. So IMHo you should only be towing in 4wd in slippery conditions - such as recovering a boat on a slip for instance.

Some Shogun's and Jeeps have both part time and permanent (or full time) 4x4. My Jeep Liberty (Cherokee in the UK) does so I can drive in any conditions in full time 4x4 but only use part time 4x4 in slippery conditions. (In actuality if you have full time 4x4, part time Hi at least is virtually redundant.)

If you are regularlty driving and towing trailers in 4x4 in dry road conditions then I'm afraid you may well be damaging your transmission and I can imagine the dealer will put it down to operator error not warranty!

That being said 695 notes for a new allow is outrageous & their argument about the chip being a problem is bovine excretia!

 

[David_J]

My guess is it doesn't have road mode 4x4.
Check that first.
If the 4x4 is only for the loose stuff that is definitely your answer. Winding up the transmission. They definitely dont like that up em.
If it is supposed to have road mode 4x4 then you do have a transmission problem.

I was at a Ford customer promotion thing one time and Ari Vatannen was giving demos and we all had a ride in what was then the works rally car with him. Very fancy stuff, clever 4x4 and all. He started to show off smoking the tyres, doing donuts stuff and figure of eight with all the wheeels spinning. He got a right rollickin from the technical bods because doing that on tarmac, even with all that technology and road 4x4 would wind up the centre diff till it exploded. Expensive.