Wanted: Architect for a composite construction, category A, 35’ monoh

[alabaster]

Hello,

The reason I’m posting on this forum is to find a UK architect ideally by personal recommendation from others on this forum. It would be ideal if the architect was in the South East and have experience in modern design, specification and project management relating to the following design overview. I’d be grateful if anyone could offer their thoughts on selecting a suitable person; oh and by the way, I'm not a billionaire media tycoon!

Cheers

Overview

Very briefly, I have an urgent requirement for live-in, self-sufficient, fast, ocean-going sailing-cruiser. I have thoroughly checked the normal new and second-hand markets. The one-off and self-build options on-line showed more promise, except the designs are all less than about 26 feet and the hull shapes are a little dated. A stodgy motor-sailor is not at all what is wanted so much as a fast sailing boat. If it can be smaller without compromising the performance, with a full load, so much the less expensive to build and run and so much the better.

Owing to the usual financial constraints, I may be obliged to self-build to realise my requirements:

1) Category A specification & STIX 50 approx
2) Epoxy-glass / Corecell sandwich, NOT Polyester, construction.
3) Full water-tight integrity (with WT doors / hatches to compartments)
4) “Modern” hull-shape (No over/under-hung bow/stern), wide more aft.
5) Capacity for 8 crew + stores
6) Immersion rate / capacity for calorifier, extra batteries, wind-gen, extra hw.
7) Trapezoidal Fin Keel.
8) Underhung rudder(s)
9) Tiller-steer
10) Deck-mounted, lowering mast
11) Configured to be conned (with auto-helm / tiller-push) from below / chart position.
12) Folding, reversing pitch propeller
13) Kubota Beta Motor

I am looking around a LWL of around 9.96 to 10.96 metres, and a LOA of 9.98 to 10.98 metres, but a LOA of 10.48 metres (LWL 10.4 metres) could be a good starting point, from which we could make some predictions and make some educated guesses about the effects of increasing the dimensions for enhancing performance or reducing them for enhanced running costs.

These are my fundamental ideas gleaned from what I have seen, sailed and researched in the normal way.
I could really benefit from hearing from others who could make sense of all this and come up with some ideas, estimates and compromises.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

[ QUOTE ]

I could really benefit from hearing from others who could make sense of all this and come up with some ideas, estimates and compromises.

[/ QUOTE ]

Having checked the date, so would I, /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[npf1]

mmm ... your requirement is urgent and budget limted yet you want a fully custom boat. Sorry to be seem flippant, but every boat is a compromise. With the constraints you have from the outset, the used (or even new) boat market seems more appropriate than a custom build that could easily run to £300k+ and take 18+ months.

Unless you want a cat, I doubt that "live-in, self-sufficient, fast, ocean-going, capacity for 8 crew plus all stores" and mod cons etc is possible in LOA 10.98m, or even 11.000001m

Or have I just been trolled and this post is 14 days late?

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

There are so many excellent production boats which are nearly within your profile------WHY BOTHER!!!!
What am I reading here ? Long distance supplies for 8crew in a 10m boat. Your having us on mate!!The mast can always come down. Get real!!
This is beginning to sound very close to that Scandinavian classic the Troll 9.75. Excellent boat which fulfilled almost everybody's dreams at an incredibly low cost.

 

[Bajansailor]

You seem to have lots of conflicting requirements - but generally, for the sort of boat I think you have in mind, you could do worse than research the existing designs by Mike Pocock.

Here is a typical design by Mike http://www.alshaheen.co.uk/Abouit%20Al%20Shaheen.htm

OK, I know it is aluminium, not epoxy, and bigger than what you think you need, but it is a good example of the sort of boats that were produced on his drawing board.
(I think he is retired now).

 

[Tranona]

Welcome to the forum!

Think you will have great difficulty in pursuing such a project Even if you resolve some of your conflicting, and in many cases mutually exclusive requirements (such as size, capacity and sailing performance) you would need to be very wealthy to have such a boat built, or even build it yourself. Very few custom ocean cruising yachts of 35-45 ft have been built in recent years simply because the cost is so high compared with even semi custom boats. Costs are high partly because of meeting CE mark requirements for one offs and partly because of high labour costs. On the other hand new factory built boats have until recently fallen in price in real terms at the same time as being able to meet even minority requirements. So, instead of being 1.5 times the cost of a production equivalent in size and type custom boats are twice or even more. Add to that the experience of many is that the secondhand value is often less than a production boat. Even rich people hate losing money! I know of one state of the art custom boat, not dissimilar from your dream that took almost 5 years to build, is 10 years old and on the market, not selling at 25% of its build cost. I also know of at least one custom project of similar construction that ended up as landfill because the original builder lost interest and was unable even to give away his beautifully built hull!

The market is absolutely stuffed with new and used boats that will meet up to 90% of most individuals' requirements - making up the extra 10% is very, very costly!

Anyway, some designers who have had boats broadly similar to your flawed brief built in recent years in the UK include Mike Pocock (already mentioned) Steve Dalzeill (think I have the spelling right), Ian Howlett and Andrew Simpson. The first three have had wealthy experienced clients who have seen their projects through and Andrew has built for clients and for himself.

Hope this helps

 

[William_H]

To my understanding the only people who have boats designed and built to custom specs are those who want to win races and have unlimited capitol.
Building your own does not save money. Building your own is only for those obsessed with building their own it is not the easiest way to get a boat.
As said buy second hand for far more boat for your money. If you must have new go for stock design. olewill

 

[nimbusgb]

8 people on 50' is 'cozy' after a while, on 35' it would turn into a floating mental institute in a couple of weeks.

 

[alabaster]

[ QUOTE ]
mmm ... your requirement is urgent and budget limted yet you want a fully custom boat. Sorry to be seem flippant, but every boat is a compromise. With the constraints you have from the outset, the used (or even new) boat market seems more appropriate than a custom build that could easily run to £300k+ and take 18+ months.

Unless you want a cat, I doubt that "live-in, self-sufficient, fast, ocean-going, capacity for 8 crew plus all stores" and mod cons etc is possible in LOA 10.98m, or even 11.000001m

Or have I just been trolled and this post is 14 days late?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thankyou for your very helpful and constructive comments. Whereas I have been pursuing my yot project for some years (too long) I have just started to learn to do what we are doing now. My post is very ambiguous. Fundamentally, I just want to build a typical, fairly modern hull, with perpendicular ends & fat aft, like those (to me) handsome (in parts) Beneteau first 27.5 and other, series, but (1) bigger, to be able to chuck more junk / people in, (2) using corecell epoxy aandwich, because although I love some of the French boats, they seem a bit flimsy and (3) incorporating a high degree of compartmentalisation for obvious reasons. I should explain that a lot of my sailing has been done from Alderney and Cherbourg, and I have seen and actually watched some very nasty things happening to yachts. As for the crew (8), I invariably sail single handed (and obviously enjoy doing so), being a batchelor, but, being fond of a girl with 4 kids, wish to be able to spend periods with her and her shower as guests. A shop yacht would send me mad. I have a German friend who built a 42 footer (Cajun) in his back garden in 3 months in Alsdorf, but wasted 7 years and a divorce fitting it out. I want minimal, and have someone who can fit it out quicker for my requirements. There's little more but this is meant to be a precis. I should also say that trolling through certain data, I have been able to get some pretty close ideas about weights and dimensions, but I will need an architect, in the end, to translate the muddle in my head into bits of mdf to nail cove and bead corecell onto. Key fact is that my budget is limited, and I am looking for material costs of well under 35k (This allows for serious cockups). I'm OK with 2nd h engine, keel, rig etc. I have been advised that this figure is realistic. It would be nice to have the hull built and I'm wondering if in this respect, the recession might be of some benefit to me here.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

Well, if you are really being serious (no offense) about building in Corecell and epoxy, I would suggest reading up on vacuum bagging unless you are already familiar with the process. I have seen too many hulls failing through improper bonding.

You might wish to get a good DVD from one of the suppliers. AirTech do have an excellent one, including software to determine lay-up characteristics; other companies, e.g. SP also have their own. No commercial connections with either company.

Another good source for various write-ups may be found in the excellent trade publication "Professional Boat Builder".

Good Luck!

 

[Bajansailor]

I was just thinking, maybe the sail training version of the Victoria 34 might meet some of your requirements - she has (I think) 7 berths, and has a watertight main bulkhead (with a watertight door going through to the fore cabin) to meet the requirements of the Services who ordered the first ones - however I cannot find any for sale anywhere at the moment - just a 'standard' Vic 34 for sale in Spain.
This perhaps speaks volumes re how popular they are, as I think that quite a few were built.

But I would agree with many of the posters above - look hard enough, and you will find an existing boat which will come pretty close to what you have in mind.

Remember that there is no 'Perfect Yacht' - Arthur Beiser wrote two hefty volumes of 'The Perfect Yacht', and basically concluded at the end of Volume II that this beast doesn't exist - however he illustrates many fine examples that (in his opinion) came close.