Vulcan anchor and seagrass. Rubbish?

I do love this idea that people buy, expensive anchors to secure an expensive bit of kit, their yacht - and they buy the anchor based on talk from the designer but no or little independent review (and no holding capacity tests). Who needs a technical department when feed back from the market place will allow you to improve your product (for example the shanks on the Mantus M1 and maybe the M2.) We have a whole 4 years of an anchor being spruiked on Cruisers Forum and its got the hold of a Delta. - How many people would buy a new delta? - that's basically what people have done who buy a Mantus!

Having said that it is refreshing that people are willing to shell out and provide, honest, feed back to the rest of us.

For anchors - if there is no independent holding capacity testing, keep your wallet tightly shut.

I have been critical of certain anchor design and shackles - it will surprise no-one to learn that I'm not on Rocna/CMP nor Mantus Chrtismas card list (not that I ever got seasonal greetings from them anyway). Neither appear to welcome criticism - even when provided quietly and privately. In fact they seem to go out of their way, or some of them, to ensure criticism is not voiced publicly - they probably would enjoy burning books.

But can we call a spade a Spade, so that we know what we are talking about.


Jonathan
 
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sailaboutvic said:
@dgadee
Question on the day mention in your opening posting , did you get the anchor to set in the end ?
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.

Yesterday. No. Two bays filled with the stuff and found a third with sand near beach. Just seen on Google satellite that the better bay has sand near beach, too. Am just going to check it out.
 
Spade. On mobile and when I edit everything goes, so did not change spade to Spade after I posted. Apologies.
 
Sailaboutvic is right - there is no perfect anchor. Spade is pretty average in thin mud (as are many anchors including an Excel). Rocna brings up big clods of weed and mud (but most owners don't seem to worry about that). Fortress are amazing in sand, so much so that if you set a small one deeply - you may need to abandon it. They are also very average in weed, pebbles and stones. The idea you can carry one anchor only means you need to be anchoring in restricted seabed types - nothing wrong with that - just be cognisant if you stray off piste - you might be disappointed (and have an anxious night).

Vulcan may not work in weed, environmentalists will be happy if you steer clear of weed beds for anchoring anyway - but maybe its good (or not) in other seabeds.

Jonathan
 
dgadee said:
Spade. On mobile and when I edit everything goes, so did not change spade to Spade after I posted. Apologies.
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I was confused with some of the posts as to whether you were being facetious and were meaning a spade (shovel) or Spade, anchor.

No need to apologise.

Spell correction is a confounded nuisance - often I look back when I check - and cannot work out what I wanted to say in the first place! :)

Jonathan
 
dgadee said:
Let out on windlass. Usually 3 to 4, then a bit more before full reverse.

I have a Kobra onboard. May give that a go.

How much seagrass is there in Greece? Just on north end of Corfu.
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We use a Kobra 2, not had any real problems, very occasionally need a couple of go's but most times can get through the sea grass. As others have said let 4-5 times depth out, put a snubber on and then increase the revs in reverse very, very slowly. We normally go to around 2,500 revs for our boat
Agree about assuming others have anchored without problem, many of their anchors may not have set and when the wind get's up you will see them drifting away
 
I have a Vulcan, small and larger Fortresses and a Kobra II. How do I change these when I arrive at an anchorage unsure of what might be there?

Seems a good idea in theory but not sure how to put it into practice with shackles going a bit rusty, perhaps?
 
dgadee said:
I have a Vulcan, small and larger Fortresses and a Kobra II. How do I change these when I arrive at an anchorage unsure of what might be there?

Seems a good idea in theory but not sure how to put it into practice with shackles going a bit rusty, perhaps?
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I agree. An anchor that works 100% of the time is what we would all like. We rarely anchor in thin mud. Its usually glutinous stuff or we anchor in sand and broken coral or sea grass. The sand/coral/ seagrass seabeds predominate in the Caribbean so choose an anchor that performs in the seabed you most often anchor in. We carry mud anchors and rock anchors for other occasions but rarely use them. We would simple add a second anchor on rope from the dinghy if we were not happy with the holding from the main anchor.
 
Anyone who thinks my techniqe needs improving and that the Vulcan is ok is welcome to make an offer for it. Boat will be ashore at Preveza in a month.
 
dgadee said:
I have a Vulcan, small and larger Fortresses and a Kobra II. How do I change these when I arrive at an anchorage unsure of what might be there?

Seems a good idea in theory but not sure how to put it into practice with shackles going a bit rusty, perhaps?
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Think the (vast?) majority of experienced long term cruisers end up with a decent hook on the big size which copes in nearly all situations. The idea of a selection of smaller hooks is definitely not mainstream in the real world.
 
dgadee said:
I have a Vulcan, small and larger Fortresses and a Kobra II. How do I change these when I arrive at an anchorage unsure of what might be there?

Seems a good idea in theory but not sure how to put it into practice with shackles going a bit rusty, perhaps?
Click to expand...

It depends on the size of your anchor as to whether its easy to change.

I'm a well known minimalist believing in design not weight - so we have aluminium anchors weighting in at 8kg, the steel versions would be 15kg. We sail a 38' cat all up weight 7t (and we use 6mm chain)

We quite happily deploy alternate anchors from the bow (being a cat we have lots of space) and we use 15m x 6mm chain, 40m of 3ply 12mm nylon and happily use a Fortress (hand deployed). We have a FX 16 or a FX 37.

I change anchors regularly on our main rode - its not a big issue.

But - we use an Excel or Spade and one of the 2 Fortress. Our anchors are good for every seabed we have encountered - we don't have problems with clogging, both the Sp[ade and Excel work well in thin weed and stones/pebbles. The big Fortress is good in soupy mud.

If we followed blindly the advise of some that long term cruisers use big anchors (my first comment would be - where is the data) then big anchors would be difficult to change.


Now jumping to another thread.

I maintain that a 30kg Mantus has the same hold (if both are set and hold) as a 30kg Delta. Now some people will have a yacht for which a 30kg would be Lewmar's recommendation and some people will have looked at this and though - well if a Mantus is better and there is that fantastic thread on CF 'Pictures of Anchors' which shows how good it is - then being so much better than a Delta - we'll just use a 30kg Mantus. They have had no problems - have you heard of anyone suggesting their Mantus has dragged? So some people will not have oversized and the anchor does not drag.

The suggestion to me is that the hold of a Delta is 'good enough' - its other factors that let it down (and these factors might not be an issue for Mantus). The suggestion is that hold, which might result from a bigger anchor) is not the panacea suggested - other factors are important. The focus on size, to me is wrong,

The focus on size simply means you spend unnecessary money.

Just out of interest - what size of Vulcan was recommended for your yacht - what did you buy. Was size the panacea suggested?

Jonathan
 
Dehler 37cws. 6.5 tonne. 15kg Vulcan. 60m of 8mm chain.

There was a Bruce 20kg on when I bought the boat but I like to take anchor in and 20kg Vulcan seemed over spec. My windlass is close to bow (I laser cut and welded a new bow fitting to push anchor forward a bit after purchase). Rocna would not fit when I tried both.

I have been happy with Vulcan holding in sand. Held in strong winds. No idea how strong because I am a minimalist on gauges.
 
On odd occasion when I encounter poor holding with the Rocna, I simply use the kedge(Guardian) on its chain and rope rode. Much simpler than swopping out the bower. I’ve often thought of getting a folding fisherman anchor to cope with truly thick weed that defeats the Rocna and the Guardian but it usually drops off the bottom of the spending list.
 
I cannot argue with the weight of anchor you have chosen and it is refreshing to find someone who bought a smaller anchor than the old gen anchor they were replacing.

I really cannot (and will not) comment on Vulcan. I've never touched one nor even seen one outside a boat show (remember them) or a marina. I'd love to try one - but I'm not buying one.

To me your comments are invaluable, good in sand, disappointing in weed (but these would be common comments on many (modern) anchors) as so few own one and few comment.

We are commonly defeated in thick weed (one of the problems of weed is that everyone's idea of weed varies) and if our chosen anchorage has weed - we look for the sand patches but if that fails - we don't even try but move on. I'm not surprised that you had problems - but its all about comparison (how do other anchors perform in the same location).

Jonathan
 
I suggest you don't try and anchor under the castle corfu town , its mostly weed there , but after saying that we use to anchor therea couple of time most years without problems
 
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