VP Rudder Position Indicator or something else

P4Paul

P4Paul

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What is the panels view on rudder position indicators?

When we spec’d Hunros I couldn't see the point nor justify spending £1000 on a VP position indicator so left it off the list. Having just spent the last week on the boat there were a few times when close to other boats I could have done with a quick, visable method of knowing which way the drives were pointing.

If I spend the money on the VP kit, can the external bits such as the cable be fitted easily on Sealift when I have a mid season scrub?

Are there any other options, such as an alternative sensor wired up to the Garmin GMI10? (I don't really want a Rulan type indicator stuck to the centre of the wheel)

Or will I just get used to handling in close quarters and within a few weeks forget all about rudder position sensors and be embarrassed I even posted this drivel?

Thanks in advance,
Paul.
 
I personaly find it invaluable for close quarter manoevering- I suppose I have always had it so would sorely miss it now as I rely on it quite a bit - rather like the Bow thruster!!
 
P4Paul said:
What is the panels view on rudder position indicators?

When we spec’d Hunros I couldn't see the point nor justify spending £1000 on a VP position indicator so left it off the list. Having just spent the last week on the boat there were a few times when close to other boats I could have done with a quick, visable method of knowing which way the drives were pointing.

If I spend the money on the VP kit, can the external bits such as the cable be fitted easily on Sealift when I have a mid season scrub?

Are there any other options, such as an alternative sensor wired up to the Garmin GMI10? (I don't really want a Rulan type indicator stuck to the centre of the wheel)

Or will I just get used to handling in close quarters and within a few weeks forget all about rudder position sensors and be embarrassed I even posted this drivel?

Thanks in advance,
Paul.
Click to expand...

On a previous outdrive sports boat, I stuck one of the cheapo davis ones on the centre of the wheel http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=00385 as a temp measure, always intending to get it done properly. but ended up staying with it because it does the job and I got used to it. Agree though they look a bit naff at first.
 
Don't know what drives you've got but, unless they're hydraulically steered without any mechanical linkage inside the hull, you shouldn't need to fit anything outside the boat.

Excalibur II doesn't have a helm indicator, but it's something I have always felt would be helpful, so I'm fitting one to Excalibur III (currently on dry land being repowered and completely refurbished). The helm indicator gauge and sender unit together cost me well under £100 (including a redundant gauge which I have decided not to use), and the sender will be connected to the steering linkage inside the transom, once I've re-engineered it all to stop it crashing into the back of the new engines :eek:.

Whoever quoted you £1000 is expecting to make a handsome profit from the job IMHO.
 
ExcaliburII said:
Don't know what drives you've got but, unless they're hydraulically steered without any mechanical linkage inside the hull, you shouldn't need to fit anything outside the boat.

Excalibur II doesn't have a helm indicator, but it's something I have always felt would be helpful, so I'm fitting one to Excalibur III (currently on dry land being repowered and completely refurbished). The helm indicator gauge and sender unit together cost me well under £100 (including a redundant gauge which I have decided not to use), and the sender will be connected to the steering linkage inside the transom, once I've re-engineered it all to stop it crashing into the back of the new engines :eek:.

Whoever quoted you £1000 is expecting to make a handsome profit from the job IMHO.
Click to expand...

The drives are Volvo Penta DPH so hydraulically controlled with external steering rams. The kit requires a bowden cable to be fed through the transom faceplate to an internal sensor which is then wired through to a gauge on the dash. The cost of the bits appear to be circa £600.
 
PaulGooch said:
If you are having Garmin electronics, i'd fit the NMEA 2000 sensor and integrate it into the system in some way.
Click to expand...

Any idea of the part number of the NMEA 2000 sensor? I couldn't find one when searching but did find a NMEA adaptor to wire to a third party sensor but little detail on how, what and where.

It would appear that it is possible that the GMI 10 display can show rudder reference information. I have a spare brand new GMI 10 and space on the dash so it would be a cost effective solution if I can match it up to a sensor.
 
A guy I know told me he was having problems berthing his boat, & asked me to help, I had no trouble berthing it just looking where I was going, then he tried, I noticed he kept looking at the wheel,he was looking at the wheel indicator,when it was showing midships, the outdrive was hard over :rolleyes:
 
P4Paul said:
The drives are Volvo Penta DPH so hydraulically controlled with external steering rams. The kit requires a bowden cable to be fed through the transom faceplate to an internal sensor which is then wired through to a gauge on the dash. The cost of the bits appear to be circa £600.
Click to expand...

Hmm, certainly rules out a cheap job then. Just a thought: is it worth trying a stick-it-on-the-steering-wheel thingy as an experiment first? If you find it a total waste of time and you find you never look at it once the novelty has worn off, you've saved £1,000. OTOH, if it helps, you can (more) happily spend the £1,000 and do the job properly.
 
P4Paul said:
It would appear that it is possible that the GMI 10 display can show rudder reference information. I have a spare brand new GMI 10 and space on the dash so it would be a cost effective solution if I can match it up to a sensor.
Click to expand...

You would need a standard resistive rudder position sender and a Garmin GRA 10 adaptor, the instructions for coupling the GRA come with it and it is a very simple job which connects to the N2K backbone just like any other node, you will however need some means of mechanically attaching the resistive sender reference arm to a moving part so if the drives are entirely hydraulc then it may be more difficult than it sounds.
 
Forget the cheap stick on the steering wheel option. They will only work with a mechanical system. You will always get creep with a hydraulic system (especially when your rams leak).
Also can't work on hydraulic with an autopilot (if you have one)

I have replaced the steering indicator cables a few times, some times whilst boats are in the water. It can be very difficult to feed the rigid part of the cable through the transom shield into the tube ( that's the case with Volvo D4 and D6.
 
a bit confused here, ok I don't have outdrives, but my autopilot (20yo) has a rudder indication on its tiny lcd screen and I'm v.happy that it does!
Wouldn't pay extra for a dedicated gauge and extra sender, but check your options on displaying this info. I'd have thought all/most AP have that (as I understand, all AP NEED rudder input)

cheers

V.
 
P4Paul said:
Any idea of the part number of the NMEA 2000 sensor? I couldn't find one when searching but did find a NMEA adaptor to wire to a third party sensor but little detail on how, what and where.

It would appear that it is possible that the GMI 10 display can show rudder reference information. I have a spare brand new GMI 10 and space on the dash so it would be a cost effective solution if I can match it up to a sensor.
Click to expand...

My mistake, was the adapter i was thinking of and you're right that it needs a sensor to connect to.
 
virtuvas said:
a bit confused here, ok I don't have outdrives, but my autopilot (20yo) has a rudder indication on its tiny lcd screen and I'm v.happy that it does!
Wouldn't pay extra for a dedicated gauge and extra sender, but check your options on displaying this info. I'd have thought all/most AP have that (as I understand, all AP NEED rudder input)

cheers

V.
Click to expand...

Should have mentioned that I was also too tight to purchase an Autopilot!

Really enjoying your thread on the rebuild of MiToS, looks like a large challenge but I am sure it will give you a fantastic sense of satisfaction when completed.

Cheers
Paul.
 
carlton said:
It's your call, but I can't see the point in spending loads of dosh on an electronic rudder position indicator when the cheapy Rulan does the job so efficiently for £30.

:confused:
Click to expand...

If it's an outdrive boat then Aquatom's point above about hydraulic steering creep would suggest that the £30 option will end up being wrong in due course.

Personally I'd spend the money and fit the the correct volvo xact cable and rudder indicator; if nothing else it will help when the time comes to sell the boat. You (or any subsequent purchaser) also won't be able to fit an autopilot without this.

I've got the volvo arrangement on my T40 and the original (non-xact) cable recently gave up, and I've really noticed not having the indicator. I'm impressed by anyone who can fit this in the water though, the xact cable is an extremely tight fit through the transom shield, and both SSL in Brighton and RK Marine have said that it is a lift-out job.

Cheers
Jimmy
 
jimmy_the_builder said:
...If it's an outdrive boat then Aquatom's point above about hydraulic steering creep would suggest that the £30 option will end up being wrong in due course...
Click to expand...

You may be right Jimmy, but a simple solution is to fit it to the hub of the wheel using stick/stick velcro, so it can easily be removed/adjusted. Well, that's how mine's fitted anyway.

Edit; Good luck in the Med, BTW!
 
carlton said:
You may be right Jimmy, but a simple solution is to fit it to the hub of the wheel using stick/stick velcro, so it can easily be removed/adjusted. Well, that's how mine's fitted anyway.

Edit; Good luck in the Med, BTW!
Click to expand...

Tee-hee, good point, well made! :D

... and thanks! Four weeks to go...

Cheers
Jimmy
 
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