VP 2003 Overheat, oil alarm and then starting problem

[MoodySabre]

For family health reasons I haven't used the boat much this year. The 34 year old engine has always started very well and been trouble free for the last 16 years.

From my marina you have to motor out down a creek less than 0.5nm. I thought the exhaust note was not right (sounded dry) but there appeared to be water from the exhaust (Moody exhausts are just below the waterline). I kept motoring to give her a bit of a run but after 10 mins the oil pressure alarm sounded. I should also say that the rev counter wasn't kicking in but a squirt of WD40 in the key hole seemed to solve that. We went sailing. On return the engine started fine but halfway up the creek the oil alarm went off again. No choice but to continue slowly. Back in my berth I went to check the oil - the engine was VERY hot. The temperature alarm hadn't sounded - yet to check if it even works. The oil level was fine - still looking quite clean (surprised). The coolant level was at Minimum which is usual. The impeller was fine. No weed in the strainer. Went home.

Next day the engine wouldn't turn over (three batteries all fully charged). Checked all the connections. Spanner on the pulley and engine turns. No decompression lever on this engine BTW. Tried the key and it turns over very very slowly. Spoke to local engineer who said the starter needs to come off and be tested before looking for further trouble. Dodgy knee means engineer will do it when he can. He had a quick look and said the thermostat bypass was blocked so this could account for the overheat. No way to tell until the starter is checked and the engine started if it will.

For the first time in 16 years I have lost my trust and think that a nice new engine to end my sailing days would be good. But it would be nice to get through this season cheaply! So what are the chances that this might work out okay? What else should I be looking at?

The events of this year have made me quite philosophical - it is was it is. I go sailing with a friend on his boat.

 

[dankilb]

Does sound like it might’ve seized through heat. Bearings can tighten up without actually dead-seizing the crank. I’d be wary of more attempted starts (with more battery power and/or new starter). Then again, it could all be coincidental and just a ‘normal’ starting issue.

Could the oil pressure alarm be caused be the oil thinning at extreme temps? Never heard of this myself, but could make sense.

 

[MoodySabre]

Could the oil pressure alarm be caused be the oil thinning at extreme temps? Never heard of this myself, but could make sense.

The engineer thought this might be the case. But it happened within ten minutes of running from cold.

I should add that the boat has been in the water all winter. I have now scrubbed the bottom with a Brizo and lots of stuff came off. We try to avoid a summer scrub in our marina because it is very expensive (£295 as opposed to £120 elsewhere) but until the engine is fixed I can't go elsewhere! My avoidance of winter lift outs has paid for my coppercoat.

 

[Boater Sam]

I reckon that it is well worn, the oil thinned too much with heat, and you have cooked it.
If you have the cash, fit a new engine, you will never trust this one 100%.

 

[dankilb]

He had a quick look and said the thermostat bypass was blocked so this could account for the overheat.

This would leave very little coolant circulating and none via the heat exchanger, so 10 mins (especially if some was under load - and it sounds maybe with a fouled prop) could certainly cause an overheat enough to result in some damage. Although hopefully this isn’t the case…

I believe these are relative simple engines and it sounds like you’ve got a good engineer on hand. But the difference between changing out the bearings only (still not a small job of course) vs. a scored crank or damaged rods if it seizes up ‘properly’ is considerable.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Strange that the water temperature alarm did not sound if the engine was very hot. Lets hope the starter motor
might solve the problem.

 

[tillergirl]

Could the oil pressure and temp just be swapped. I know that doesn't answer the starter motor

 

[vyv_cox]

Could the oil pressure and temp just be swapped. I know that doesn't answer the starter motor

Just what I was about to suggest. Oil thinning due to temperature will not set the alarm off. The oil in my Lomax reaches 125 C in the current heatwave, no fan and a small oil cooler. Oil pressure is not noticeably lower compared with about 60 C.

 

[MoodySabre]

Thanks all.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Just one point; I have the same boat and the same engine - and my 2003 certainly does have a decompression lever; I thought it was standard on the 200x series. It came in very handy once when I needed to start the engine and found my battery very flat - the battery was good enough to turn the engine fast without compression, then drop the lever and it went! It's on the forward end of the valve cover.

 

[VicS]

Just one point; I have the same boat and the same engine - and my 2003 certainly does have a decompression lever; I thought it was standard on the 200x series. It came in very handy once when I needed to start the engine and found my battery very flat - the battery was good enough to turn the engine fast without compression, then drop the lever and it went! It's on the forward end of the valve cover.

Discontinued on later versions .( From SN2300059085 )

 

[sailaboutvic]

Before even thinking of replacing the engine sort out the starter motor,
Then take it from there , just maybe you got a doggy oil swith and a bad starter motor

 

[MoodySabre]

Update.
Starter was “rebuilt” and now works fine, engine starts immediately.
Two days ago went out for a run, within 10 mins the oil alarm went off, got back in very low revs with no problem. Engine not hot hot.
Someone suggested that the big overheat may have wrecked the oil so yesterday I did an oil change. Today, started fine, running very smoothly. Ten minutes later the alarm went off. Went for a sail, got back in with no alarm.
I haven’t got a an oil pressure gauge -is there some way of testing the pressure switch/ sender or should I just replace it?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Update.
Starter was “rebuilt” and now works fine, engine starts immediately.
Two days ago went out for a run, within 10 mins the oil alarm went off, got back in very low revs with no problem. Engine not hot hot.
Someone suggested that the big overheat may have wrecked the oil so yesterday I did an oil change. Today, started fine, running very smoothly. Ten minutes later the alarm went off. Went for a sail, got back in with no alarm.
I haven’t got a an oil pressure gauge -is there some way of testing the pressure switch/ sender or should I just replace it?

I'd replace the sender; I don't know a way to test one, but if replacing it fixes the problem, then it was the sender!

If the oil level is unchanged (I assume you've checked), it's difficult to see how the oil pressure could be low. If you're losing oil pressure, you'd expect an obvious oil leak somewhere.

The other possible culprit is the weird and wonderful circuitry of the engine instrument panel. But I don't understand that! There has been a very comprehensive thread about the engine panel electronics, though. Does your oil warning sound before the engine starts? It should.

The part is Keypart

 

[MoodySabre]

IDoes your oil warning sound before the engine starts? It should.

The part is Keypart

it has only sounded once in the last 16years and that was low oil level motoring back from Rotterdam. Never sounds before start.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

it has only sounded once in the last 16years and that was low oil level motoring back from Rotterdam. Never sounds before start.

If you think about it, it should sound before starting, after the "ignition" is on but before the engine starts turning; until the engine turns, the oil pressure is low. It does that on mine, though it's behaviour has not always been consistent. I don't think the electronics are clever enough to avoid that! But I admit that I suspect Volvo of black magic and voodoo when it comes to the electronics behind the engine panel.

 

[VicS]

If you think about it, it should sound before starting, after the "ignition" is on but before the engine starts turning; until the engine turns, the oil pressure is low. It does that on mine, though it's behaviour has not always been consistent. I don't think the electronics are clever enough to avoid that! But I admit that I suspect Volvo of black magic and voodoo when it comes to the electronics behind the engine panel.

I think you will find that the VP electronic modules suppress the audible alarm at switch on. That is why they have an alarm test button.

 

[scottie]

Check the exhaust hose a serious over heat &. lack of coolant can delaminate it

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I think you will find that the VP electronic modules suppress the audible alarm at switch on. That is why they have an alarm test button.

I think it depends on which panel you have; there are at least two different ones, with evidence that there were changes during the production of the 200x series. I'm pretty sure that @MoodySabre and I have the same one (we both have the same boat, of very similar vintage). There has been a very long thread on here about the electronics; even people with good electronic knowledge were puzzled by some aspects of the circuitry!

Another possible issue is that on the Moody 31 there are two multi-way plug and socket joins between the engine and the panel, one at the engine and the other behind the engine panel. It's very easy for a bad connection to develop on either of these joints; checking them and ensuring that the contacts are clean and that all the wires are connected to the pins is a worthwhile check.