Vosper information

[penfold]

Direct drive is preferable from a maintenance perspective; inspecting hydraulic pump cush drives every 3 months has always resulted in sight of a plastic molding fit for further service, whereas belts need changing regularly, periodic tensioning, shed filthy dust everywhere and apply side loads to spindles, wearing out bearings and seals.

 

[jfm]

In rereading this post, was wondering what preferences exist for pulley based hydraulic pump vs direct drive from PTO?

thx

It's mostly about power. A small pair of fins will draw a couple of horsepower so a belt driven pump(s) work ok. But if you want the same pumps to drive bow/stern thrusters, as is often the case, then you need tens of horsepower so a direct mounted PTO is needed. Direct mounted PTOs are often much neater to fit as well.

 

[jtboyt]

It's mostly about power. A small pair of fins will draw a couple of horsepower so a belt driven pump(s) work ok. But if you want the same pumps to drive bow/stern thrusters, as is often the case, then you need tens of horsepower so a direct mounted PTO is needed. Direct mounted PTOs are often much neater to fit as well.

Thx. Should not be a problem for us as we have two Detroit Diesels 8V71s natural so each about 340HP.

As a personal comment, think bow thrusters not needed with twin screw yachts. Never needed them in 40 years aboard this vessel.

Thx for input

 

[jfm]

My reference to power is power required from the hydraulics, which can hit the limit of what you can sensibly take through a belt drive, not power of the engines. Also, Penfold makes some excellent comments in post 21.

Let's agree to disagree your 2nd sentence. All depends on the use case. I would always spec a b/thruster because I Med moor in strong cross winds

 

[vas]

morning all,

obvs agree with penfold and jfm, only extra problem in my setup was that neither IVECO 8061 nor TwinDisk TM800 boxes had PTO points :-( When asked I was told they are too small for that.
Having said that, I'm still running with the non-proportional valves that originally came with the system (cost of a set of proportional ones is way over the cost of the system as is ) so I'm becoming a bit of a collector of pumps at different flow rates. Still at under 100euro a pop it's ok, just taking space in a drawer in my garage. Best operation atm is via the inverter kindly donated a few years back by jfm and a massive 3ph el.motor so that I can alter flow according to conditions.

cheers

V.

PS. must update the fin thread at some point as I've finished a series of non-boaty projects and I'm planning to work on improving/finalising the setup for the coming season.

 

[BCarmena]

Oh my gosh I am so sorry for ghosting everyone on this thread! Once we got started at the yard (two and a half months worth) I lost track of anything and everything. I only just rediscovered this thread while searching for info. It has bee a busy couple of years. Funny thing is I still haven't completed the stabilizer repair. It dropped down the priorities and I figured I would finish up the hydraulics AFTER the repower rather than having to redo everything. As is sits everything has been serviced on the hydraulic side. I just need to mount the filters and finish connecting the hydraulics. Only then can I even see if the electronics work. One thing that concerns me is that there are no pressure relief valves in the system. That seems like an enormous safety oversight and I don't plan to run the system up until I have something in place. I can only imagine the carnage if a fin went full lock and the fluid had nowhere to go..... I have been super busy at my business as well so I havent even been able to finish prepping the new engines yet. That seems to be delayed again until next winter. It never seems to end.

Vas, thank you so much with your help on this. I will be getting going on it again soon and I believe that wiring diagram will be invaluable. I appreciate it.

Blaine

 

[vas]

Blaine,

just note that there IS a pressure relief valve integrated on each stack! I'll try to get to my pics and/or diagram and come back on that.
No need to add anything extra, just add oil

EDIT: here it is (picked from my thread):

And don't do what I did by teeing off one hose and adding a WIKA 62mm dia ss gauge to monitor pressure as two seasons after the install gauge internals failed and dumped all oil in the bilge
Further as pressure mounts on the pipes ONLY when and for the duration of the solenoid operation, an analogue gauge is a silly way of monitoring. Ended up forking for a decent 4-20mA gauge
and monitor via s/w where I'm using some algorithms to find the peaks of each "flap" and show on screen that and update it after every movement. That's the only thing that would make sense (sort of)

cheers

V.

 

[BCarmena]

Vas,
I can only imagine the mess that guage failure would have left... I am all for the electronic SS pressure transducers. We use them a lot and they seem to be pretty robust. As for the relief valves, It would appear that someone in the past has done some "upgrades" and removed them. The only thing on the stack is the solenoid valve. They have been replaced with newer Vickers units. Even the old rusty valve in the pic I posted had no relief valve incorporated. No worries, I will incorporate some into the system. Being I have two pumps in the system (one dedicated to each fin) I also need to pick up another high pressure filter for the system.

 

[vas]

check the routing of pipes,
IIRC returns from the two units, come together on a T and after that on the path back to the tank you have the cooler and the filter. So no need for a second one, unless you want to add another cooler which would be a bit too much imho.

Obvs add relief valves then!
Following this wakeup call on this thread and having finished another large non-boaty project, I've slowly started to read the code I wrote over the last years, remember what I've done and look at possible improvements.

V.

 

[BCarmena]

check the routing of pipes,
IIRC returns from the two units, come together on a T and after that on the path back to the tank you have the cooler and the filter. So no need for a second one, unless you want to add another cooler which would be a bit too much imho.

Obvs add relief valves then!
Following this wakeup call on this thread and having finished another large non-boaty project, I've slowly started to read the code I wrote over the last years, remember what I've done and look at possible improvements.

V.

I typically like having the filters between the pumps and the rest of the system. Keeps any bits and pieces out of the solenoid valves. I already have a single high pressure filter, just need a second one. I really have to shake my head. When we purchased the boat the stabilizer hoses were completely deteriorated. So much so that just bending them a little would tear them in half. That combined with the complete lack of relief valves was just a recipe for disaster. I look forward to seeing your improvements! I have enjoyed watching your progress.

 

[vas]

OK, mine is a low pres filter on the return path. Considering replacement filter was a price I wasn't expecting (close to 100euro for something that didn't look that substantial) I'd rather have one on the return to having 2 no doubt much more expensive on the high pressure side
will try to update the main thread next week or two when I get some news

cheers

V.

 

[JT_Bowen]

I bought s/h a Vosper system, installed it in my boat but in the process scrapped the analogue box of tricks and running off a custom PLC (arduino style) board.
I do have the manuals / installation / wiring in paper format.
Post a couple of pics to establish we are talking about the same thing and then we see how we progress.
OK, so you did find my thread then
had a long day today, so will come back tomorrow

V.

Hello Vas,
I'm helping a friend with his Vosper installation. He has the manual for the system with the exception of the wiring information. Would it be possible for you to post the schematic for the analogue bag of tricks.

Your custom controller thread was very interesting too.

JT

 

[vas]

Hello Vas,
I'm helping a friend with his Vosper installation. He has the manual for the system with the exception of the wiring information. Would it be possible for you to post the schematic for the analogue bag of tricks.

Your custom controller thread was very interesting too.

JT

hi,

diagram is in #16 above. I'm afraid I don't have any other diagram, lots of pages on the manual though discussing other things, but you say you do have the manual, so not much point...

if you need anything else, let me know

V.

 

[JT_Bowen]

hi,

diagram is in #16 above. I'm afraid I don't have any other diagram, lots of pages on the manual though discussing other things, but you say you do have the manual, so not much point...

if you need anything else, let me know

V.

Hi Vas,
I downloaded the file but I couldn't make out too much detail. I could interpret a lot of what I needed, and it was very helpful, but I was wondering if you could re-post it in higher resolution somehow?

The manual provides a good explanation of how the system nominally operates but I suspect the problem might be a "dirty" switch or potentiometer which doesn't get covered well in the debugging procedures.

Thanks in advance,
JT

 

[vas]

Hi Vas,
I downloaded the file but I couldn't make out too much detail. I could interpret a lot of what I needed, and it was very helpful, but I was wondering if you could re-post it in higher resolution somehow?

The manual provides a good explanation of how the system nominally operates but I suspect the problem might be a "dirty" switch or potentiometer which doesn't get covered well in the debugging procedures.

Thanks in advance,
JT

scanned it again, it's now 4MB JPG and obvs forum is not happy and wont accept it...
you either post a bit more in the forum so you can sent and receive PMs to give me your email, or you put your email here (not really recommended as bots follow and will probably see an increase in spam)
up to you

V.

 

[Valenting]

Hi Guys,


I am new here - and trying to figure out a Vosper stabilizer system installed in the early 90s. While I have a complete owners' manual (if one requires it, i can get a scanned copy) - I can't see anywhere the value of the fin position potentiometer. I know that originally a Penny and Giles was fitted - but, upon dismantling, I can't see code/resistance value.

Thanks in advance,
Val

 

[JT_Bowen]

Hi Guys,


I am new here - and trying to figure out a Vosper stabilizer system installed in the early 90s. While I have a complete owners' manual (if one requires it, i can get a scanned copy) - I can't see anywhere the value of the fin position potentiometer. I know that originally a Penny and Giles was fitted - but, upon dismantling, I can't see code/resistance value.

Thanks in advance,
Val

Hi Val,
I measured the inputs to the controller on a friend's boat this summer; one side was 860 Ohms and the other was 890 Ohms. Note: this includes about wiring from the stabilizers to the helm, e.g. 20 to 30 feet. They're Penny and Giles pots and one has a serial number 1115769. I think the system was installed in the mid to late 70s.
JT

 

[vas]

hi,

potentiometer works in a fairly narrow range and inevitably is worn out. Can easily check if it's worn by marking carefully and removing them, rotate and measure. See if you get a smooth value range on the angles involved. Wont be surprised if you dont! then either get the right resistor inline/parallel to keep values in the right range (or buy new if you can find them!)

V.

 

[Valenting]

Thanks all for your advices on the feedback potentiometers. I got in touch with Curtiss Wright (running Penny & Giles) and they replied as per the below:
“The resistance of the unit is 2K+- 10% AND Linearity accuracy is 0.50%.”. They are still producing them on order - min 5 pieces.

 

[vas]

They are still producing them on order - min 5 pieces.

I'm in for two if you're thinking about getting them (assuming price is not silly and they are same housing!)

cheers

V.