Chris H
Well-Known Member
I'm viewing two Portofino 53's, one has 715hp volvo's, the other 715hp CAT engines, are there any pros/cons to each engine, ie parts/running costs or things to look out for.
Many thanks Chris
Many thanks Chris
Volvo vs CAT
- Thread starter Chris H
- Start date
Portofino
Well-Known Member
There's nothing in it at that 12 L node .
Both equally good , and easy parts in SoF
Don,t use the engines here to differentiate choose on value /condition /price.
Both equally good , and easy parts in SoF
Don,t use the engines here to differentiate choose on value /condition /price.
[2068]
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Both are good engines, but there are Volvo dealers almost everywhere, whereas with CAT in the UK you are tied to Finnings. Service items will be more expensive on the CAT. But this should not be a deal breaker either way.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
We have a greater proportion of bigger stuff here in the Cote D Azur ,with the infrastructure to support .
MAN ,MTU ,CAT as well as Vp agents for the small fry on every street corner -well it feels like it
Chris H
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys, I was told some time ago that one engine is much quieter than the other but can remember which one.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
They made a mess with the Volvo D12 install on the Hatten 50 -it can boom .
All rarther depends on instal .
I,ve been saying this a lot you must "test drive " 1st no obligation or money changing hands ( except your offer of diesel )
To find stuff like that out .
Noise levels
Ride comfort
Cruise speed ( nobody goes around @ WOT )
Viability -- does your frame fit the seat/ wheel ,are you happy with the mullions etc.
Then and only then if you like it and can live with all the above start delving deeper etc .
Speak to Alex @ SS.fr to clear that up . Noise issue ?
Porto 53,s are well suited here great choice .
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Depends where you buy the parts David. I get my service parts from a truck and bus dealer.
[2068]
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Which model of truck or bus has a seawater pump impeller?
The oil filter on my previous KAD32 was the same as on a Volvo car from the 1980's!
There are ways around these things
jfm
Well-Known Member
Yup both ok. The cat could be C12 or C15 - do you know which? C15 = preferred: it is perhaps the best engine of all time in that size bracket, being development of the much loved 3406E and half of what is now a C32. All Cat's finest hour, and an awesome engine. (My brother has a pair of 3406E and I'm on second pair of C32s, so putting money where mouth is. I've also had four Volvo D12s in the past)
None of them is quiet - unit injectors in both the Volvo and Cat - but the most important thing regarding noise is the boat builder's exhaust installation. If that is done right (and sunseeker were towards bottom of class on this in the 2004-5-6 era you're looking at) then the engines are easily quiet enough.
I don't see much difference in service costs (in French Mediterranean) and service/parts are widely available
What hours?
None of them is quiet - unit injectors in both the Volvo and Cat - but the most important thing regarding noise is the boat builder's exhaust installation. If that is done right (and sunseeker were towards bottom of class on this in the 2004-5-6 era you're looking at) then the engines are easily quiet enough.
I don't see much difference in service costs (in French Mediterranean) and service/parts are widely available
What hours?
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Just spoken to the SS guys ,ask the op,s very Q
Ans is service history ,buy the one with most .But all things being equal it's the CAT ( C12 JFM ) that edges it .
They tell me it's got more Low down torque than the D12 ,more grunt lower down .
This translates to
C12 - Its gets up and planes easier with mid season dirty props than the D12 which can struggle and they said it "overload " .
Also they get a lot of issues with low hr D12 ,s and exhaust elbows on the P 53 .
No issues with the elbowson the C12 .
Noise wise they are the same - on the P53 ,boils down to install of the exhaust ,Which they got right on the Portofino range .
Ans is service history ,buy the one with most .But all things being equal it's the CAT ( C12 JFM ) that edges it .
They tell me it's got more Low down torque than the D12 ,more grunt lower down .
This translates to
C12 - Its gets up and planes easier with mid season dirty props than the D12 which can struggle and they said it "overload " .
Also they get a lot of issues with low hr D12 ,s and exhaust elbows on the P 53 .
No issues with the elbowson the C12 .
Noise wise they are the same - on the P53 ,boils down to install of the exhaust ,Which they got right on the Portofino range .
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rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Which model of truck or bus has a seawater pump impeller?
The oil filter on my previous KAD32 was the same as on a Volvo car from the 1980's!
There are ways around these things
Dukw?
aquatom
Well-Known Member
Which model of truck or bus has a seawater pump impeller?
The oil filter on my previous KAD32 was the same as on a Volvo car from the 1980's!
There are ways around these things
Just because it fits doesn't mean it's the same! How do you know how many microns it is filtering to and what the area of the filter media is?
[2068]
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aquatom
Well-Known Member
That will do it!
jfm
Well-Known Member
Useful info. Though I'm surprised that SS say they have lots of low-hour issues with D12s - it is well known as pretty bullet proof, plenty on here (including me, Milo, Nick-h) have had them 1000hours with no issues, etc.
You gotta put exhaust elbows into context. They are generally not part of the engine, made by someone like Halyard (ie not the engine builder) and specced by the boat builder. Their life varies from say 5 years to 10, and then you chuck em out. When they fail it is usually a weep not a holiday-stopping incident, and you can fit a better one. Apart from their cost, say £1500 each, I put them in the same category of importance as wiper blades and would never choose a boat based on them
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
There are 2 pointers on the D12 that's kills them, well maybe 3.
Rotten exhaust elbow allows sea water back into the cylinders, this the standard cast Volvo one, was never fit for purpose .
Clogged up intercooler due to insufficient coolant and coolant filter changes.
Unit injector failure.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Op,asked what's the difference .
I spoke to a SS .fr guy with 12 Years selling boats ,just passed on the info .
They don,t get come back from C12 boats .
Also in the process , sea trail , engineers reports etc the D12 issues that surface end up with more horse trading ,hence the need for meticulse SH with a D12 .
For me the low down grunt clinches it all other things like SH being equal .
Also in the mid noughties Vp did a credit line of the nature the builder SS -priny -FL and Sealine setting the a/c after the new purchaser had paid in full . A handy 6/12 credit line to fudge the the bank around 2008 very usefull , in theroey ! But reality is never far away speak to Fl /sealine / Hunton (smaller stuff )
Where as CAT ,would not ship it from the states until the cheque has cleared .Meaning the punter had paid a stage ,so NO-- real free lunch for how many months the bean counter s could get away with .
Hence a lot of D12 stuff about in the 700' ish size say 50 ftr range .
Except in the States were CAT are dominant .
There was a MAN 800'option with the Porto53 ,but with nutter pricing , mostly with Anesons .
For me today I would have a CAT c12,--- P 53 --- 10 years from new .
New is a different set of Q,s ---- but we are not asking new !
I spoke to a SS .fr guy with 12 Years selling boats ,just passed on the info .
They don,t get come back from C12 boats .
Also in the process , sea trail , engineers reports etc the D12 issues that surface end up with more horse trading ,hence the need for meticulse SH with a D12 .
For me the low down grunt clinches it all other things like SH being equal .
Also in the mid noughties Vp did a credit line of the nature the builder SS -priny -FL and Sealine setting the a/c after the new purchaser had paid in full . A handy 6/12 credit line to fudge the the bank around 2008 very usefull , in theroey ! But reality is never far away speak to Fl /sealine / Hunton (smaller stuff )
Where as CAT ,would not ship it from the states until the cheque has cleared .Meaning the punter had paid a stage ,so NO-- real free lunch for how many months the bean counter s could get away with .
Hence a lot of D12 stuff about in the 700' ish size say 50 ftr range .
Except in the States were CAT are dominant .
There was a MAN 800'option with the Porto53 ,but with nutter pricing , mostly with Anesons .
For me today I would have a CAT c12,--- P 53 --- 10 years from new .
New is a different set of Q,s ---- but we are not asking new !
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Portofino
Well-Known Member
Yup it's the lack of low end grunt and more of a tendency to" overload " ( its a phase I ,ve been using but the SS guy mentioned it ) with dirty props until cleaned that knackers the elbows --excess Exhaust Gas Temperature -EGT .**'
Agree elbows are consumables like brake pads /discs on cars ,but nearer 10years is better than nearer 5 Years ,as 70K miles is better than 25k miles for discs on cars ? .
Agreed like lipped disc ,s it no show stopper .
CAT elbows seem to last longer .
**'the water inthe excess heat +600 degree or what ever vaporises and forms a more concentrated sulphuric acid residue. A which rots the elbow .
It's not really then 8hite materials VP use it's the final application of real world use , which includes a degree of prop fouling .
That degree or concentration of "rotting " acid does not occur ( as much) with CAT,s -----in the real world .
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D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Be aware that quite a few Cat engines, including the C12 engines, suffered from aftercooler failure problems. Get the engine numbers and check the service records with any Cat dealer - they will have access to the Cat central database. I'm sure you will but, as with any used boat purchase, best to have a Cat technician check out and report on the engines before you buy. I've had 4 boats with Cat engines and Finnings are OK for spares supply. Not cheap but not stupidly expensive either