Volvo Penta's shameful warranty

[volvopaul]

Thanks for this Paul.

I'm not getting dragged into posting anything that could come back and bite us, but this is only partially true.

Dealers are paired up with VP Centres who in theory hold more stock that the Dealers. Some of the bigger Dealers have agreed high charges for Next Day Orders (24 hour carriage) and offset this with savings on Stock Orders. (3 day carriage)

Dealers who will avoid passing on the high Next Day Delivery costs will have increased their stock accordingly. Any Dealer worth his salt will have analysed their market and stocked accordingly. It is therefore possible for Dealers to feel that they have been penalised by indirectly being forced to make significant investment in stock, but that's not the end users problem. I don’t really see the reason for concern on the restructure on this forum........ With respect, this issue is internal and we don't consider this to be the place discuss Volvo Penta's infrastructure unless the end customers feel that they are losing out on service. The internal deals that are agreed with the Centre's were subject to negotiation between the Dealer and the Centre.

From a customer’s perspective, availability of stock has improved to the end user, and RRP of Volvo Penta Parts and Engines has remained unaffected by the changes. Despite Dealers not being able to receive Next Day orders before 730am the next day; depending on a Dealers proximity to the Centre, it is usually possible for many Dealers to obtain parts on a same day basis. Therefore more stock than ever before held at both Dealer and Centre for same day delivery. Fulfilment of orders is therefore higher than ever before, improving availability of parts to the end customer.

This said, it is my understanding that some Dealers are still not carrying enough stock, or have negotiated a cheaper next day delivery charge and a higher planned order charge. It therefore may be a case of these Dealers not carrying enough stock, buying things in at too much money and passing the costs on? Answer to this is change Dealer.

Therefore your post possibly results from a case of a specific Dealer not adjusting the changes quicker?

And that is all I've got to say on the Restructure!

YesI know all this and how it works, ive changed dealer too, to a very well know south coast dealer that treats me very well from every angle, I take my hat off to them ive had an excellent year workwise they have only made it better by keeping instock nearly every part ive asked for and not charging me excess for overnight orders on large items like engine kits etc.

Still despite what you say this is a public forum and anything can be discussed openly, if the administrator doesnt like something he will pull it off, so far ive not been a victim, I only write facts, not fairytales and see it from both sides as a VP engineer and 41ft boat owner that too can gripe about the whole industrys charges that also make me cringe when I think about it compared to the Automotive and Industrial backgroundthat I have.

Next time im in LYH I will drop in and meet you I too have a few clients in there.

 

[Ropewalk Marine]

Hi Paul,

We're aware of the public availability of the forum and were hoping to avoid publicly making a fuss over what is a very contentious issue for VP and their Dealers. Of course this is a public forum and it is not my position to tell you not to express your views. I apologise if that's how I came across. We feel it important to be positive and have no reason to moan. Like you we simply convey facts and not fairy tails.

Having said this I look forward to meeting you when you are around Lymington and having a coffee. Maybe we could catch up on Little Red Riding Hood or even Goldilocks and the Three Bears!

 

[GrahamHR]

http://www.volvopentastore.com/

As requested, a shortcut to the website I referred to. If it doesn't work, then it's on the first page of the VP US site ( black shopping trolley in a blue square> I have accessed it when in the US.

Graham

 

[scottie]

The restructuring by Volvo has been driven by Volvo Sweden and one of the outcomes is a reduction of Volvo staff in the UK as the dealers will be handling all customer and sub dealer contact
It will be interesting to see how much information is passed to the main dealers that would have been given to trusted employees who were directly responsible to VP.
It is remarkable the number of problems which were one off "never had that before" etc that come to light at any gathering of dealers or technicians on courses that will not now happen as the dearers will now be doing the training.
What will happen if a main dealer is not commercially or technically viable how long will it take before the customer suffers

How many end users are even aware of the restructuring I wonder?

 

[David of Essex]

I had an issue with VP in the first year. The first 50 hour service was carried out by VP agent, they said we have found a fault with fuel sender when doing Vodia check, it will be covered on warranty, you have to pay us for the repair and we claim the money back from VP. I said that can’t be right, if I bought a car and it had a warranty issue it would be repaired straight away. It doesn’t work that way with marine cover I was told. I had to pay and as it was SIBS week I took this issue up with VP. The VP area manager who said unfortunately some dealers work this way but not all. He said he would have a word with the dealer. The following week I had a call from the dealer to say, it’s not covered under warranty it’s a manufacturing issue, claim the money from them. Not a happy person was I.

David

 

[PaulGooch]

http://www.volvopentastore.com/

As requested, a shortcut to the website I referred to. If it doesn't work, then it's on the first page of the VP US site ( black shopping trolley in a blue square> I have accessed it when in the US.

Graham

The Volvo Penta Online Store is only accessible to visitors located in the United States**. Please contact your local dealer for information concerning Genuine Volvo Penta parts

 

[volvopaul]

The restructuring by Volvo has been driven by Volvo Sweden and one of the outcomes is a reduction of Volvo staff in the UK as the dealers will be handling all customer and sub dealer contact
It will be interesting to see how much information is passed to the main dealers that would have been given to trusted employees who were directly responsible to VP.
It is remarkable the number of problems which were one off "never had that before" etc that come to light at any gathering of dealers or technicians on courses that will not now happen as the dearers will now be doing the training.
What will happen if a main dealer is not commercially or technically viable how long will it take before the customer suffers

How many end users are even aware of the restructuring I wonder?

Yes quite right our local dealers now signed up to Mitchell power systems which is a massive company which are Industrial based company which do detroit and allison transmissions, MOD work, MTU engines etc. They have taken on volvo id say to gain its Industrial work and nothing else so the leisure market for this area will suffer from info from dealers as they will no longer go to Watford for training.

As of yet ive not heard what if anything will happen to Watfords training centre and the staff who run it.

The only other part of the new training will be that instead of being in a nice workshop where 20 pupils can stand around an engine, the will be inside a boat where all the not so easy to get at parts wont be on hand to show pupils how its done eg changing a high pressure fuel pump on a D6 is easy when the engine is on a stand, when its in a boat and your hanging upside down 3 inches away fro the boats fuel tank its a totally different story, one which will im sure create further issues in training, the other issue is whos boat and engine will they be playing/ tampering with to give training, im sure Mr new princess owner wontbe too pleased that his boats being used for volvos benefit!, all backwards in my opinion, a week in Watfords high street in past evenings has been a lot of fun!

 

[Ropewalk Marine]

Surely not?

I had an issue with VP in the first year. The first 50 hour service was carried out by VP agent, they said we have found a fault with fuel sender when doing Vodia check, it will be covered on warranty, you have to pay us for the repair and we claim the money back from VP. I said that can’t be right, if I bought a car and it had a warranty issue it would be repaired straight away. It doesn’t work that way with marine cover I was told. I had to pay and as it was SIBS week I took this issue up with VP. The VP area manager who said unfortunately some dealers work this way but not all. He said he would have a word with the dealer. The following week I had a call from the dealer to say, it’s not covered under warranty it’s a manufacturing issue, claim the money from them. Not a happy person was I.

David

Unlike us to publicly stick our neck out and agree with derogatory feedback, but assuming that this is true THIS IS SHOCKING! Everyone seems keen enough to slate VP, but if there are Dealers operating with this policy then end users must take the appropriate action against them.

As a Main VP Dealer we have NEVER considered asking a client to pay whilst we await reimbursement from VP. (Stand corrected… We’ll ask for this in Goodwill cases where units are out of warranty and a claim is pursued at a customer’s risk.)

Imagine the scene...."Yes Sir, your 18 month old D6 needs replacement and I need a cheque for £35k. Don’t worry we may give it back if we get reimbursed!" - I cannot believe that Volvo Penta would ever tolerate this from anyone operating on the bonafide VP network.

You should have told the offending Dealer that this is unacceptable and not even considered giving him the work. Us Dealers get paid for warranty work from VP, NOT the Client! You should have asked the question that if a Dealer is concerned over being reimbursed by VP is this potentially due to their concern over a misdiagnosis? (Smacks of incompetence and/or lack of financial backing to me!)

You have freedom to choose your Dealer. If unhappy with what is initially said just walk out, irrespective of whether you or VP are to foot the bill. It's the Dealers loss, not yours.

We are happy to speak to and advise any VP customer and give no nonsense advice on VP warranty. We are in Lymington, but we travel to the West Coast of Scotland monthly and regularly work in Troon. We are remarkably mobile and a conversation with us will cost you nothing.

VP don’t deserve to receive negative press on the back of one bad Dealer.

 

[GrahamHR]

As a VP owner, whilst by no means defending VP in terms of warranty, I'm happy with what I have. My engine/ outdrive is now 5+ years old and I have had no issues, apart from a crevice corrosion isssue with the S/S props; new set supplied by VP UK after 12 months, but they are now corroding ( but still perfectly useable).

With reference to VODIA . The D3 (= Volvo Cars recent 2.4D/ D5), plus the petrol engines ( 3.0, 5.0, 5.7., 8.1 etc) are car/ truck based engines. These would have (by law) have to be OBDII compliant. So the software/ error codes for those engines should be easily "readable", Unless, of course, VP have deliberately (and expensively) reprogrammed them. Seems unlikely to me. Once the snow has gone, I'll look for a OBDII plug on my 2004 5.7 GXi !

Graham

 

[Ropewalk Marine]

Yes quite right our local dealers now signed up to Mitchell power systems which is a massive company which are Industrial based company which do detroit and allison transmissions, MOD work, MTU engines etc. They have taken on volvo id say to gain its Industrial work and nothing else so the leisure market for this area will suffer from info from dealers as they will no longer go to Watford for training.

As I've said on previous post. It is your Dealers choice to go with their chosen Centre. (VP cannot force a Dealer to use a specific Centre.) Personally, I believe that there will be less Centres in say, three years time. Those that fail will be those that have not fulfilled the correct criteria. (Just my opinion.)

As of yet ive not heard what if anything will happen to Watfords training centre and the staff who run it.

The only other part of the new training will be that instead of being in a nice workshop where 20 pupils can stand around an engine, the will be inside a boat where all the not so easy to get at parts wont be on hand to show pupils how its done eg changing a high pressure fuel pump on a D6 is easy when the engine is on a stand, when its in a boat and your hanging upside down 3 inches away fro the boats fuel tank its a totally different story, one which will im sure create further issues in training, the other issue is whos boat and engine will they be playing/ tampering with to give training, im sure Mr new princess owner wontbe too pleased that his boats being used for volvos benefit!, all backwards in my opinion, a week in Watfords high street in past evenings has been a lot of fun!

Customer boats used for training?..... Never happen…..At least not with us! Centres are being forced to make significant investment in training stock. Ideally in confined spaces for training purposes. So long as the required investment is made by each Centre, there should be improved accessibility to hands on training. No issues here?
PS. Where was the last engine space where you could get 20 pupils around a D6?

 

[scottie]

Who pays for travel from one end of the country to the other not Volvo I would say?

 

[Ropewalk Marine]

Who pays for travel from one end of the country to the other not Volvo I would say?

Nobody. Unless you’re expecting us to make a specific trip! If this is the case you may find the costs prohibitive! We do a lot of work up there. 7 days notice and we can be there - Travel FOC. £46 PH

 

[volvopaul]

What I was saying is you can have 20 in a classroom but not in a boat.

 

[David of Essex]

Unlike us to publicly stick our neck out and agree with derogatory feedback, but assuming that this is true THIS IS SHOCKING! Everyone seems keen enough to slate VP, but if there are Dealers operating with this policy then end users must take the appropriate action against them.

As a Main VP Dealer we have NEVER considered asking a client to pay whilst we await reimbursement from VP. (Stand corrected… We’ll ask for this in Goodwill cases where units are out of warranty and a claim is pursued at a customer’s risk.)

Imagine the scene...."Yes Sir, your 18 month old D6 needs replacement and I need a cheque for £35k. Don’t worry we may give it back if we get reimbursed!" - I cannot believe that Volvo Penta would ever tolerate this from anyone operating on the bonafide VP network.

You should have told the offending Dealer that this is unacceptable and not even considered giving him the work. Us Dealers get paid for warranty work from VP, NOT the Client! You should have asked the question that if a Dealer is concerned over being reimbursed by VP is this potentially due to their concern over a misdiagnosis? (Smacks of incompetence and/or lack of financial backing to me!)

You have freedom to choose your Dealer. If unhappy with what is initially said just walk out, irrespective of whether you or VP are to foot the bill. It's the Dealers loss, not yours.

We are happy to speak to and advise any VP customer and give no nonsense advice on VP warranty. We are in Lymington, but we travel to the West Coast of Scotland monthly and regularly work in Troon. We are remarkably mobile and a conversation with us will cost you nothing.

VP don’t deserve to receive negative press on the back of one bad Dealer.

I told VP at SIBS, this was there reply was

The VP area manager who said unfortunately some dealers work this way but not all. He said he would have a word with the dealer. When I put it to him that VP should be telling dealers how to operate customer services not let it be that loose that a dealer can ask for money first he just raised his shoulders.
Credit where credit is due, you have been a credit for taking the time to answer all of these concerns.
A question for Ropewalk Marine. When a dealer has been awarded a VP dealership, do all of his maintenance staff have to be trained at VP before being allowed to do repair work.?
David

 

[rule the waves]

Basically, it's very simple: your dealer can do magic, if he is a well known (read: good selling...) VOLVO agent and off course, good willing...I also had several problems with my 225 D4 (2008) , though pretty basic each time and they all got solved under warranty. But, I must emphasize, my dealer did a great job towards VOLVO. Let's hope it stays that way. Still, somehow I'm no longer convinced about the quality of the newer VOLVO's. But they all have their problems....

 

[scottie]

I told VP at SIBS, this was there reply was


A question for Ropewalk Marine. When a dealer has been awarded a VP dealership, do all of his maintenance staff have to be trained at VP before being allowed to do repair work.?
David

That would the case in a perfect world but in reality if the work is there and an untrained engineer is doing nothing else a pair of overalls would look the part . What do you think?

However an engineer with experience could well be a better option than a certified technician just out of training class.

Volvo training is excellent but is done in stages over several years

 

[Ropewalk Marine]

Trained to a suitable level.

I told VP at SIBS, this was there reply was

The VP area manager who said unfortunately some dealers work this way but not all. He said he would have a word with the dealer. When I put it to him that VP should be telling dealers how to operate customer services not let it be that loose that a dealer can ask for money first he just raised his shoulders.
Credit where credit is due, you have been a credit for taking the time to answer all of these concerns.
A question for Ropewalk Marine. When a dealer has been awarded a VP dealership, do all of his maintenance staff have to be trained at VP before being allowed to do repair work.?
David

Hi David,
The answer to your query on training is like so many of our replies ………Long! Sorry about that.
Each Volvo Penta Dealer (And also VP UK) maintains a database of what bona fide VP training has been undertaken with their employees. Like any business, employees have to start somewhere, and we (as are most Dealers) are only big enough to maintain employment of two apprentices at all times. (That is in addition to the qualified engineers!) These Apprentices will go through their NVQ’s up to level three before we even send them on courses specific to VP products. We also always keep our apprentices one year apart so that when one is completing their level three the other is finishing level two. This just keeps things simpler for us.
Prior to completion of 12 months experience in our employment, and successful completion of NVQ level 2; where appropriate, we do encourage apprentices in their third year to undertake hands on works without a fully qualified VP engineer being present. This is subject to two things:
1. The Apprentice has numerously experienced (with a trained engineer) the same works being asked of them (and demonstrated a full understanding)
2. Following undertaking the core works, the Apprentice completes an Apprentices Report and the job is revisited with the Apprentices Supervisor to talk through all of the works that have been undertaken.
Once an Apprentice has completed their NVQ3 training, they in our opinion are still very “green”. (At this stage they are simply expected to hold fundamental knowledge and to be frank they will not be considered "trained" for approximately a further 4 years.)
In short, VP Dealers should be sending out engineers to undertake works that they are suitably trained in. (IE: IPS is a good example) VP UK are keen to ensure that this is the case.
VP Dealers are expected to fulfil specific training requirements layed down by VP UK. Failure to fulfil this criteria could see a Dealership being revoked.
Common sense must prevail, quality must be maintained, and time billed to clients should reflect the time that should have been spent on a job and not training time. After all that’s why we’re £46 per hour and not £30.
As a footnote I'd like to add that it is unfair when clients think that an Apprentice has been sent to do a job because it saves a Dealer money and they are somehow making a sacrifice in accepting an Apprentice on their boat.(............Unless of course there are some Dealers who are not following the correct quality control and the customer suffers.)
If a Dealer is doing things correctly, the end result to a client will be identical to that if the qualified supervising Engineer has undertaken the works. There would be no compromise to quality of service, or any difference in the bill.
Of course an Apprentice invariably takes a lot longer to do a job, and of course they are paid proportionately less that other employees, but time and supervision that is required to ensure that good (Home Grown) Marine Engineers remain in the system requires investment by Dealers. And this investment costs……… Boy oh boy does it cost!

 

[DAKA]

I'd like to add that it is unfair when clients think that an Apprentice has been sent to do a job because it saves a Dealer money and they are somehow making a sacrifice in accepting an Apprentice on their boat.

Its a fact that an Apprentice is far more likely to cost the owner more in the long run.

The Apprentice is far more likely to strip a thread, leave a locking nut loose and cause extra expense than an experienced mechanic ( Volvo Penta trained or a freelance mechanic).

Example

Engine gets serviced by VP
Raw water filter top comes off the next time out (cross threaded)
Lifeboat called
engine swamped


When I go out to sea with my family on board I need confidence the engine is as perfect and reliable as possible.
For a consumer like me that means the engine has been serviced /checked by a known individual mechanic with trusted abilities.

I would not be happy at going to sea with an engine that has been serviced by an apprentice .
The Volvo Penta warranty clause that forces the use of Volvo Penta for service is unacceptable.

If Volvo Dealers want to charge more for their services then they must provide a service which is better than the freelancers and they should not rely on a dodgy warranty clause as an excuse to arrogantly overcharge the loyal Volvo Penta customer .

 

[Ropewalk Marine]

VP are not endangering your life!!!!

Its a fact that an Apprentice is far more likely to cost the owner more in the long run.
The Apprentice is far more likely to strip a thread, leave a locking nut loose and cause extra expense than an experienced mechanic ( Volvo Penta trained or a freelance mechanic).
Example
Engine gets serviced by VP
Raw water filter top comes off the next time out (cross threaded)
Lifeboat called
engine swamped
When I go out to sea with my family on board I need confidence the engine is as perfect and reliable as possible.
For a consumer like me that means the engine has been serviced /checked by a known individual mechanic with trusted abilities.
I would not be happy at going to sea with an engine that has been serviced by an apprentice .

Agreed. Did you not read our last post? We would NEVER allow an apprentice to undertake any work that they were not trained in. We would NEVER allow works to be completed by an Apprentice without thoroughly checking what had been undertaken. Your scenario that you have come up with is nonsensical. Our last post stated that:

Prior to completion of 12 months experience in our employment, and successful completion of NVQ level 2; where appropriate, we do encourage apprentices in their third year to undertake hands on works without a fully qualified VP engineer being present. This is subject to two things:
1. The Apprentice has numerously experienced (with a trained engineer) the same works being asked of them (and demonstrated a full understanding)
2. Following undertaking the core works, the Apprentice completes an Apprentices Report and the job is revisited with the Apprentices Supervisor to talk through all of the works that have been undertaken.

We even backed this up by saying:

Once an Apprentice has completed their NVQ3 training, they in our opinion are still very “green”. (At this stage they are simply expected to hold fundamental knowledge and to be frank they will not be considered "trained" for approximately a further 4 years.)
In short, VP Dealers should be sending out engineers to undertake works that they are suitably trained in. (IE: IPS is a good example) VP UK are keen to ensure that this is the case.

We assume that you disagree with “Investors in People” and that trained Engineers should be simply employed though recruitment. So where do new VP engineers come from?

The Volvo Penta warranty clause that forces the use of Volvo Penta for service is unacceptable.

If Volvo Dealers want to charge more for their services then they must provide a service which is better than the freelancers and they should not rely on a dodgy warranty clause as an excuse to arrogantly overcharge the loyal Volvo Penta customer .

Sorry, can’t actually convey what a load of “Bobbins” this statement is! “Arrogantly overcharge” where on earth did that come from? Did my post not state:

Common sense must prevail, quality must be maintained, and time billed to clients should reflect the time that should have been spent on a job and not training time. After all that’s why we’re £46 per hour and not £30.
As a footnote I'd like to add that it is unfair when clients think that an Apprentice has been sent to do a job because it saves a Dealer money and they are somehow making a sacrifice in accepting an Apprentice on their boat.(............Unless of course there are some Dealers who are not following the correct quality control and the customer suffers.)
If a Dealer is doing things correctly, the end result to a client will be identical to that if the qualified supervising Engineer has undertaken the works. There would be no compromise to quality of service, or any difference in the bill.

We consider your post to be very insulting. If you’ve experienced substandard service, or overcharging, change your Dealer. I fear that this is not the case here. Could it be that you are a “Freelancer” who is the one being a little “Arrogant” here in not appreciating that bigger businesses need a source of fully qualified Engineers. These need to come from somewhere, and investing in the future should not be considered compromising service.
Finally, your Lifeboat scenario is a blinder! There’s no response that can deal with an accusation that Volvo Dealers are putting lives at risk! Was it not you that posted something about “Scaremongering” when we were suggesting checking fuel systems prior to the introduction of increased FAME levels in Marine Gas Oil?


This is tongue on cheek, so don't take this seriously:
'Could it be that Freelancers stand to gain from your post. I'm sure that Freelancers are excellent at screwing on Raw water filters, but there is no mention of the current VP training which is unavailable to Freelancers. So be careful everyone..... Using a Freelancer will result in your boat sinking, with total loss of life to all!
'

 

[DAKA]

We consider your post to be very insulting

Sorry, not meant to be, I think the misunderstanding is easy to understand....
I am talking about VP warranty and main dealer marine engineers in general.

On one hand you come across as speaking for the VP dealer network and VP Europe as a whole which I am happy to have a pop at.
And then you get upset and puppyish when you feel your individual company workforce is being criticised, which you shouldnt if you are running a good company which you are proud of then great
Now the rest of my post can be deleted if you like, just send me a pm and the rest of this will vanish as the last thing I want to do is to discourage people like your goodself from posting.

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