Volvo duo prop drive advice

[dannyboy]

Hi all

I am considering a boat I've seen for sale (Princess 32) with twin KAD32's on 290 duo prop outdrives. She looks well sorted and the engines and drives are spotless. The thing is, I have no exerience at all with VP engines or drives. I am used to old Perkins smoke machines and Enfield outdrives which can be maintained quite nicely with a bit of patience, skill and a handful of basic tools and on which technology extends no further than....erm...a starter motor! Research on various forums/threads seems to arrive at the oppinion that the KAD32 is a good, durable engine so long as it is regularly serviced and belts/tensioners are replaced as per schedule. The engines don't scare me but the outdrives do. My concern is the potential maintenance costs of a pair of these duo prop outdrives.

Can anyone give me a clue as to the extent of frequent maintenance required on the legs, price of spare parts, typical dealer service costs and difficulty/possibility of DIY maintenance? The worst thing in the world would be to end up with a boat that I can't afford to look after properly - which as a result quickly goes to the dogs. I know one or two folks who have done exactly that and quickly ruined once beautiful boats.

Also - is this boat up to 350+HP? Not that I'm after a warp speed wave hopper (well I am, but SWMBO says "no!") - I just like the style and design of the old Prinny and the layout suits our "higher priority needs" - but it would be nice to take her out to sea now and then on calm days and have a bit of a silly).

I know that the Prinny is more commonly found fitted with the 75hp MD21's (or nasty 106hp AD32's). But I've had enough of pre-Victorian, stinking, rattling (and slow) sulphur chuckers and would like modern, refined engines that sound like....er....engines instead of angry tractor drivers smacking you round the back of the head with a spade 3000 times a minute.

Any advice will be welcome.

Regards

Danny

 

[aquapower]

From experience a volvo drive is just as easy to service as an Enfield, and comes of boat a lot easier.
You will find these a lot more refined than the old Perkins/Enfield combination.
Dont be put off

 

[Scubadoo]

Hi all

Can anyone give me a clue as to the extent of frequent maintenance required on the legs, price of spare parts, typical dealer service costs and difficulty/possibility of DIY maintenance? The worst thing in the world would be to end up with a boat that I can't afford to look after properly - which as a result quickly goes to the dogs. I know one or two folks who have done exactly that and quickly ruined once beautiful boats.

I am no expert on this but can give you my experience. I have AD31 (similar to the Kad32) with the duo prop since the boat was new which is now 10years old and had no problems with the outdrive system.

It is serviced professionally (by DB Marine - Cookham/Maidenhead) every other year and I ensure the bellows are also replaced, it cost about £400-500 (for one outdrive). I know there are guys on here that do it themselves and if you do a search someone wrote down the process (I can dig it out I think). Spares are readily available but Volvo are expensive, but no experience of failures only the service costs.

Hope that helps.

 

[volvopaul]

That boat will certainly move, my friend had one with the old aqad 40 is it gave 26 knots but only use it on a flat sea as the hull is so flat at the stern and not really designed for that sort of power.

The kad is a good engine but for slow river use will be an overkill in terms of power that you will never need unless you go to sea.

Also the supercharger will cut in around 1700 rpm up to around 2500/2700 then the turbo carries on the boost.

You can rewire the system to cut out the charger if you wish.

The drives are good as long as they have been maintained correctly, service costs I charge under 400.00 per leg so that give you an idea, but its not that much every year.

Engine wise I can supply you aftermarket filters over genuine vp prices, im also midlands based .

 

[AdeOlly]

The DP-E drives on the KAD32s are good outdrives, and whilst regular maintenance is essential, you can still get problems due to wear even if you follow the maintenance schedule to the letter.

In my four seasons with our current DP-Ds and DP-E on our previous boat, I've suffered a failed trim pump, scored output shafts and most recently a worn cone clutch that required the top box stripping for it to be replaced. Total cost of sorting that lot was over £3k I'm now hoping for a trouble free season. My drives have 600-700 hours on them, but Volvo reckon they should go 1000 before needing a rebuild. Right now I'm feeling jealous of Scubadoo who's gone 10 yrs without problems. Maybe he talks nicely to them before and after every trip

 

[jparham]

Do my own servicing on my DPEs. Even changed the seals on the rams last year. All is straightforward. You just need to be shown the knack of how to lift the drive unit off and put back on. I reckon half the cost is labour. Synthetic oil is the biggest cost. Some don't change it annually if it runs clear from the bottom drain. I change it anyway. Could be costly to have a re-build....... and I'm not sure I'd like to tackle that!

 

[volvopaul]

The DP-E drives on the KAD32s are good outdrives, and whilst regular maintenance is essential, you can still get problems due to wear even if you follow the maintenance schedule to the letter.

In my four seasons with our current DP-Ds and DP-E on our previous boat, I've suffered a failed trim pump, scored output shafts and most recently a worn cone clutch that required the top box stripping for it to be replaced. Total cost of sorting that lot was over £3k I'm now hoping for a trouble free season. My drives have 600-700 hours on them, but Volvo reckon they should go 1000 before needing a rebuild. Right now I'm feeling jealous of Scubadoo who's gone 10 yrs without problems. Maybe he talks nicely to them before and after every trip

Hi Ade the top gearbox takes a max 30 mins to take off and about the same to strip out the cone, so where you spent that much? the cones only around 250.00

 

[mikesyam]

My F33 duoprops have around 500 hours on and are serviced every year by Volvo, had to have both clutches replaced last year 5 months apart, paid about £700 each leg plus the cost of the lift in/out. Personally never again.

 

[CX54WEK]

We have the same combination of KAD32 and duo prop outdrive (2003). We are having our drive serviced at the end of this month. Its last service was around 16 months ago when we bought the boat. The cost we have been quoted is £550 (inc VAT) including lifting the boat and chocking ashore for upto a month.

The engine and drive have currently got 600hrs and are giving no troubles or cause for concern. In fact we covered 300hrs last year with no problems or mechanical failures. If/when we where looking for another boat we would certainly consider another with KAD engines and duo prop outdrive to match.

 

[Morpheous]

I had a cone clutch done in one of my dp 290's this year and it only cost a couple of hundred. Mine are 20 years old, have done nearly 1100 hours and are mostly OK. I think mine are the old version with external reverse latches. I get a barnacle problem on one of the reverse latches which makes it difficult to engage gear sometimes. Getting used to how to treat them now.

I suspect other forumites may want to get into the whole shafts vs outdrive thing (again) but if you are going down the outdrive these are no worse than any others, well documented and easy to get parts.

 

[mont]

fwiw,
Duoprops are not difficult to look after yourself, some good manuals available, the vp 'diy' one espec for servicing, and parts are reasonable if sourced. They are pretty simple really but do need setting up correctly and regular & competant tlc.
They have a reputation for costly maintainence mainly based on the size of the 'engineers' bills issued. IMHO this often occurs due to a poor standard of on-going maintenance together with some creative billing as the owner is of course expecting a stiff bill.
A decent check over prior to purchase is needed to establish the initial condition and some extra tlc during ownership. Do also check that the previous 'engineer' owned a grease gun and knew where to stick it.
I like my duoprop's, and their many positive aspects, and performance / fuels savings have more than covered the cost of the extra tlc.

 

[Pendana]

I find the DP-E outdrives are quite easy to work on provided you have a decent toolkit.
If you service your old Perky's and Enfields I'm sure you'll be quite happy working on the Volvo's.

Not wishing to do the likes of volvopaul out of a living, but some of us couldn't get on the water without doing our own maintenance.
(The local Volvo Engineer usually has at least 3 months waiting list!)

PROCEDURE FOR SERVICING OUTDRIVES

REMOVE/REPLACE PROPS
Socket set
Large screwdriver
Cone Brace
Rubber Mallet
Plastic bags (for protecting shafts)
Masking tape
Grease

DRAIN OIL
Impact driver
Hammer
3 litre basin/bucket

REMOVE STERDRIVE AND INSTALL
Flexidriver (7mm socket)
Longnose pliers
Mole grips
Ratchet spanner (11mm)
Open spanner (11mm)
Hex (allen) sockets
Mini Slide hammer (Pin Puller)
Allen key (3/8")
Rubber Mallet
Grease gun
Funnels
Plastic tube

PARTS(for 2 drives)
Part No. £(+vat) Quantity
UJ Bellows 876294 29.00 2
Exh. Bellows 876631 45.00 2
Mounting bushes 876507 8.00 2
O-ring 955974 0.9 4
Fibre washer 897682 1.00 2
Ring anode 875821 24.00 2
Bar anode 852835 28.00 2
Oil 5 litre 3809442 66.00 1
Oil 1 litre 3809443 15.00 1

Even if you have to eventually renew the cone clutch, as Volvopaul said above, it's not difficult or that expensive, just make sure you renew all gaskets and o-rings and take care of all the shims.

Parts catalogue and workshop manuals are worthwhile investments for the DIYer


Eddie

 

[AdeOlly]

Hi Ade the top gearbox takes a max 30 mins to take off and about the same to strip out the cone, so where you spent that much? the cones only around 250.00

Hi Paul - the £3k was for all unscheduled outdrive work over the past four seasons, not just the clutch.

I do like my outdrives, but peeps thinking of buying them for the first time should be aware that they do go wrong and it does always seems to cost quite a lot to have them fixed. Yes, many things can be done DIY if you're very handy, have the right tools and are brave enough.

Example with my cone clutch replacement. This took somewhat longer than your hour as the drive had to come off just for this, plus the shimming turned out to be miles out from a previous strip down by someone else, and the input shaft seals had also been put on backwards! So by the time it's all sorted, the drive's off and back on and refilled with clean oil it's £750. That's enough to have bought the new 5hp outboard I'm after, just to fix the clutch. Even without the additional problems on my drive it'd have still been £600 odd.

 

[Morpheous]

Sorry but the drives do not need to come off for cone clutch replacement.

 

[KevB]

Hi Dannyboy,

I've got DP 290-E's, now 8 years old and 900 hours and have been faultless. Annual anode change a bi annual oil, UJ and exhaust bellow change.

Did the last service myself which can be done easily with very basic DIY tools.

How I did it with instructions courtesy of Pendana and pics can be seen HERE

 

[Morpheous]

KevB - as relative newbie here I missed your original post on that - very good post, shame I've just booked mine in. Ah well next year. Now just need to find a similar post about AD41 servicing...

 

[KevB]

WhiteMischief,

Yes, always next year. I was amazed at how easy it was to take the legs off...considering what they do. Made all the easier with instructions from someone who has already done it (Thanks again Pendana).

 

[Morpheous]

I'm going to tackle the engine service myself after being given lots of workshop manuals from forumites - thanks chriskaye, epervier etc. I had thought the drives looked a bit scary but not so much now.

 

[volvopaul]

Hi Paul - the £3k was for all unscheduled outdrive work over the past four seasons, not just the clutch.

I do like my outdrives, but peeps thinking of buying them for the first time should be aware that they do go wrong and it does always seems to cost quite a lot to have them fixed. Yes, many things can be done DIY if you're very handy, have the right tools and are brave enough.

Example with my cone clutch replacement. This took somewhat longer than your hour as the drive had to come off just for this, plus the shimming turned out to be miles out from a previous strip down by someone else, and the input shaft seals had also been put on backwards! So by the time it's all sorted, the drive's off and back on and refilled with clean oil it's £750. That's enough to have bought the new 5hp outboard I'm after, just to fix the clutch. Even without the additional problems on my drive it'd have still been £600 odd.

Want a nice yamaha 8 2 stroke???

 

[dannyboy]

Wow! What a wealth of brilliant information. Many many thanks to you all for your responses, the link to photos, parts lists etc. Your sharing of wisdom and experience is really appreciated.

I reckon on then that I need to allow for budgeting £1000 ish every 2 years for leg servicing alone (assuming no major failures) and perhaps half(ish) this amount for parts if I were to take on the job myself. Not a massive amount when you break it down weekly (£10 per week) but these are the sort of extra costs - over and above buying the boat and fuel etc. - that have to be taken into consideration when falling in love with something new (well, better anyway).

Thanks again to you all. I'm off to do some sums (under strict supervision from SWMBO). If we decide to go for this boat, I'll keep you posted on how things turn out.

Kind regards

Danny