Volvo DPH steering problems

spannerman said:
Maybe Daka has done thousands of hours on Volvos but he is no mechanic as his post clearly illustrates, has he ever actually bled out a DPH system, I think not judging by the tosh in his post, there is no pressure from the power steering pump up at the helm as this is purely a low pressure (hand powered) hydraulic system which operates the shuttle valve at the rear on the transom shield, this then controls the high pressure from the servo pump down to the cylinders. If any oil blows back while filling this is purely air coming up the hoses and is directly proportional to how fast you spin the wheel while filling, I have done this operation at least 50 times and we always run the engine to help purge the cylinders of air.
It isn't as dramatic as he makes out, you get plenty of warning as as soon as the oil level in the helm gets low you get a clicking sound from the helm pump and the wheel feels notchy, you can top up and keep going, the oil doesn't leak so fast that you instantly lose the steering as he implies.
I am sure Volvopaul will confirm this.
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I quite agree with you on that one
 
Now educated I would like to say that the Volvo penta DPH drive is a marvellous innovation, taking the steering mechanism out of the engine bay and above the water line to under the sea water was brilliant, out of sight and out of mind, marvellous
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I think the idea was a good one (almost), but the execution poor.

The idea was that the next generation of drives would need to cope with more power, and coping with the increased forces required and the need for greater steering precision would be best satisfied by having the point at which the steering force was applied as close as possible to the thing being moved.

This was nothing new: hydraulic X-act steering had been around for years on the high performance DP-X drives. So, beef up the cylinders a bit, bolt them on, new shuttle valve assembly: job done.

But, most of these previous DP-X drives were fitted to high performance ribs, or smaller high speed trailerable boats, not cruisers that sat around for months in marinas accumulating crud. Ooops.

If I owned a boat with DP-H drives, after use, I think I would leave the steering wheel hard over to the opposite side I had left it to the previous time.

Also, it makes buying a boat fitted with these things a bit of a minefield, as there have been several iterations of cylinders and hoses: all apart from the latest batch with varying degrees of durability, unless you keep back £2k or £3k in reserve "just in case"?
 
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volvopaul said:
I quite agree with you on that one
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I have deleted it Paul, the DPH drive is bloody marvellous .
you have my pm of actual examples so I expect you can see how my confusion came about thinking the auto helm would disguise the judder felt on the steering wheel :rolleyes:


There may of course be another slight hick up in that just suppose the steering ram fails when a fully trained Volvo Mechanic isnt at the wheel, just suppose (however unlikely it is) that its just a mere mortal like me at the wheel and they dont notice the judder in time or just think its seastate/bent prop.
 
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volvopaul said:
Read my previous posts about sale of goods act and 6 years warranty though the boat has to have dealer history, remember the fact that warranties are a partnership between the boat owner and the volvo dealer ie you have your boat engine and drives serviced by them using correct parts and trained engineers that will also update any vodia issues at the time of service, have your boat serviced at the correct time, the dealer will help you even if its out of waranty, you just have to speak to the right people.
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It's not correct to say there is a 6 year warranty as that is not the case -there is a right to claim for up to six years, but it can be up to the buyer to show that the fault was present on the day of sale. There's also the fair wear and tear aspect....

From the OFT website on guidance for sellers:


Customers' rights last for six years

The law says that a customer can approach you with a claim about an item they purchased from you for up to six years from the date of sale (five years after discovery of the problem in Scotland).

This does not mean that everything you sell has to last six years from the date of purchase! It is the time limit for the customer to make a claim about an item. During this period, you are legally required to deal with a customer who claims that their item does not conform to contract (is faulty) and you must decide what would be the reasonable amount of time to expect the goods to last. A customer cannot hold you responsible for fair wear and tear.

The six-year period is not the same as a guarantee, but it does mean that even where the guarantee or warranty supplied with the product has ended, your customer may still have legal rights.

The whole area is actually quite complex. For example there is a right to claim a partial refund if a repair is "causing an unreasonable inconvenience" or where the repair or replacement is not satisfactory when they receive it.

I do agree the best thing is to work with your dealer. VP would not want somebody testing out whether the DP-H was fit for purpose or not in Court......
 
AdeOlly said:
It's not correct to say there is a 6 year warranty as that is not the case -there is a right to claim for up to six years, but it can be up to the buyer to show that the fault was present on the day of sale. There's also the fair wear and tear aspect....

From the OFT website on guidance for sellers:


Customers' rights last for six years

The law says that a customer can approach you with a claim about an item they purchased from you for up to six years from the date of sale (five years after discovery of the problem in Scotland).

This does not mean that everything you sell has to last six years from the date of purchase! It is the time limit for the customer to make a claim about an item. During this period, you are legally required to deal with a customer who claims that their item does not conform to contract (is faulty) and you must decide what would be the reasonable amount of time to expect the goods to last. A customer cannot hold you responsible for fair wear and tear.

The six-year period is not the same as a guarantee, but it does mean that even where the guarantee or warranty supplied with the product has ended, your customer may still have legal rights.

The whole area is actually quite complex. For example there is a right to claim a partial refund if a repair is "causing an unreasonable inconvenience" or where the repair or replacement is not satisfactory when they receive it.

I do agree the best thing is to work with your dealer. VP would not want somebody testing out whether the DP-H was fit for purpose or not in Court......
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Hi Ade, the story went something like ths.

He was mr nice guy and was told no way after 3 years, he proved he had his boat serviced along with volvos guidelines, so he contacted Trading Standards who helped him make his claim against volvo, no court threats just plain English speaking how he was going to make his claim and intentions should they not follow his requests.

Net result, new rams, hoses steering fixed, later that season due to salt water in his steering fluid pump fails, back on to dealer, new pump fitted, system flushed out FOC, job done.

We ALL know the rams were never fit for purpose, VP know it too, they failed on an sc38 after 9 months in semi salt water, even the alloy ends caps rotted off, later ones fitted with bronze or brass caps, they still leaked, new ram looks very different now, lets see how long it lasts.
 
volvopaul said:
Hi Ade, the story went something like ths.

He was mr nice guy and was told no way after 3 years, he proved he had his boat serviced along with volvos guidelines, so he contacted Trading Standards who helped him make his claim against volvo, no court threats just plain English speaking how he was going to make his claim and intentions should they not follow his requests.

Net result, new rams, hoses steering fixed, later that season due to salt water in his steering fluid pump fails, back on to dealer, new pump fitted, system flushed out FOC, job done.

We ALL know the rams were never fit for purpose, VP know it too, they failed on an sc38 after 9 months in semi salt water, even the alloy ends caps rotted off, later ones fitted with bronze or brass caps, they still leaked, new ram looks very different now, lets see how long it lasts.
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Yep - no disagreement over the approach there Paul, and from what I read VP have no real choice but provide replacements. If they risked a Court case there has to be a good chance they would lose, and that really would cost them a packet.

I just wanted to make the point that goods do not have a six year guarantee in the true meaning of the word, and peeps shouldn't think they do.

It was in fact the DP-H horror stories together with those of some D4 electrical gremlins that persuaded me to go for a KAD300/DP-G combo rather than D4/DP-H when looking for the Jeanneau.
 
AdeOlly said:
Yep - no disagreement over the approach there Paul, and from what I read VP have no real choice but provide replacements. If they risked a Court case there has to be a good chance they would lose, and that really would cost them a packet.

I just wanted to make the point that goods do not have a six year guarantee in the true meaning of the word, and peeps shouldn't think they do.

It was in fact the DP-H horror stories together with those of some D4 electrical gremlins that persuaded me to go for a KAD300/DP-G combo rather than D4/DP-H when looking for the Jeanneau.
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Good choice Ade, simple and reliable.
 
The boat came out today and it is the rams that are leaking, in fact they are both leaking so its 2 new rams for me then.

so how do I go about this sale of goods act??
 
I'm possibly looking at getting a new boat with D4's on DPH drives, my previous boats both had shafts and I heard several of these horror stories.

Do I need to worry? I certainly expect new engines/drives to last more than a couple of years before major work.
 
no need to worry spud, marvellous combination , bloody marvellous.


Its always nice to have your engines serviced before you go away far...

New oil
oil filter
tappets
pre filter
fuel filter
fan belts
impellers
air filters.


Just add to it

new steering rams
new end caps
new filter strainer
new hydraulic steering oil motor/valves

and you will not go far wrong , :)
 
DAKA said:
no need to worry spud, marvellous combination , bloody marvellous.


Its always nice to have your engines serviced before you go away far...

New oil
oil filter
tappets
pre filter
fuel filter
fan belts
impellers
air filters.


Just add to it

new steering rams
new end caps
new filter strainer
new hydraulic steering oil motor/valves

and you will not go far wrong , :)
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I presume you are refering to volvos D range, if so you a better man than me if you adjust the tappets on a service, or any other time for that matter. There hydraulic which means there self adjusting.
 
Spud1973 said:
I'm possibly looking at getting a new boat with D4's on DPH drives, my previous boats both had shafts and I heard several of these horror stories.

Do I need to worry? I certainly expect new engines/drives to last more than a couple of years before major work.
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Spud, I spoke to Sealine and Princess at LIBS. Both salesmen kept a straight face when I enquired about VP steering issues, and claimed they were unaware of any problems. For me this really hits their credibility. The right answer is that "......there have been a few problems recently, but they are confident that the revised spec will work. Any issues will be resolved under warranty,......"

As it stands, buyer beware!!!
 
rafiki_ said:
Spud, I spoke to Sealine and Princess at LIBS. Both salesmen kept a straight face when I enquired about VP steering issues, and claimed they were unaware of any problems. For me this really hits their credibility. The right answer is that "......there have been a few problems recently, but they are confident that the revised spec will work. Any issues will be resolved under warranty,......"

As it stands, buyer beware!!!
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Remember you were talking to a salesman!
 
volvopaul said:
I presume you are refering to volvos D range, if so you a better man than me if you adjust the tappets on a service, or any other time for that matter. There hydraulic which means there self adjusting.
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It was a general list paul covering all engines.
Youre probably also aware my current engines dont have tappets to adjust either.

All I was saying was that all engines should be serviced before a long passage.

I tend to change my pre filters even if they have only done a few hours use.
Its quick, cheap and if it saves me stopping mid channel then its a few quid well spent !

Once someone has renewed the dph steering motor/valves then all they really need to add to my 'pre cruise' service is a few extra consumables like steering rams.

If I have a dph drive boat in the future I will simply budget for new steering rams every May in order to enjoy the season trouble free.

Volvo penta have just added to the list of annual service consumables.IMHO.


Ive said it before but will do again in the interests of humour ;)

The DPH drives make a mockery of the Tohatsu two stroke outboard motors that have been banned from sale, in the last 5 years I have used 2 L of 2T oil.

I reckon your average DPH drive leaks that every 12 months ;)
 
rafiki_ said:
The only thing worse than an uninformed salesman is a blatant liar! I do not believe that either were unaware of the steering issues, if they have ever sold boats with DP drives.
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If you think thats bad , i had a conversation about the steering rams on THE VOLVO stand at sibs last year and he had not heard of any problems :mad:
I often wonder if some of these companies feel they are to big to give a **** or they are terrified of admitting to known faults either because of bad press or the possibility of opening the floodgates to warrenty claims .
 
ANDY59 said:
If you think thats bad , i had a conversation about the steering rams on THE VOLVO stand at sibs last year and he had not heard of any problems :mad:
I often wonder if some of these companies feel they are to big to give a **** or they are terrified of admitting to known faults either because of bad press or the possibility of opening the floodgates to warrenty claims .
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Whatever they are afraid of, they just look and sound idiots in my book.
 
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