Volvo D3 or D4

AllanG

AllanG

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I would welcome any opinions on which you think is the better engine:

A Volvo D3 (160 hp) or a Volvo D4 (210 hp)

What are the reliabilty issues with both engines? Would there be any major difference in servicing costs?

Many thanks in advance.

Allan
 
New version of D3 still has a list of tech bulletins following it, have an old D3 (2004) in bits in the shop, two of the 3 bolts securing the alternator broke so it pivoted causing the belt to shred along one side, while driving a loose bit got under the cambelt cover and it jumped a few teeth. Needless to say the engine stopped imediately, you can't rebore these blocks so its a new longblock at £7000 plus labour, all for two bolts.
The D4 seems to be a mature engine now and all the teething troubles are gone IMHO.
 
If Bogof means get the next one free what does D3 mean get many free under warranty

The D3 must have cost Volvo a fortune in warranty and reputation I suggest that the early one were the worst engine Volvo produced in a marine version
 
Reliability and servicing will be important and you can probably expect people to praise and damn both engines! It will depend on their experience. My, limited, experience is that usage and the installation has a greater bearing on reliability than the base engine.

In my opinion (ready to be shot down!) the suitability for the type of vessel is probably more important. You have very different beasts here, I have been through this as I am looking at potentially having to re-engine a semi-displacement (Nelson type) cruiser.

If you assess that you need 160 BHP (your chosen D3) then the D4 180 may be a more appropriate comparison.

I suspect that the torque curves will be very different on these engines, torque is a ratio of hp to rpm. For a given hp, the lower rpm it is produced at the more torque will be produced (D3 produces 160 hp at 4000 rpm whilst the D4 produces 180 hp at 2800 rpm). Using the classic torque calculation you can expect around 284 and 457 Nm, at max rpm, respectively (somewhat higher at the max point on the troque curve). You can take some account of this through the selection of gearbox ratios (2:1 ratio will half the shaft RPM and double the torque) but there is a relatively limited range of standard ratios and you could find, on a heavier vessel, that with the D3 you are having to use significantly higher revs when at slower speed. D3 will always rev higher and in my experience this will generally be nosier. Prop selection is going to be different for both engines and this may have some say, depending upon available space.

My opinion:

If you have a light planning vessel = D3.

Heavier planning or s/d vessel = D4 or even bigger. If I end up needing to re-engine then I am looking at a Perkins M150ti (6 ltr producing 150 bhp at 2500 rpm)
 
D3 is based on the 5 cyl Volvo car engine. Was an OK engine in a car, but not really class competitive.

D4 is based on a truck engine, I'm sorry, I don't know if this is a Volvo or other base unit. It is a 4 cylinder, and therefore not so refined as the D3, but more robust, and will probably last longer in a planing boat, where you are using the engine at quite a high duty cycle.
 
rafiki_ said:
D3 is based on the 5 cyl Volvo car engine. Was an OK engine in a car, but not really class competitive.

D4 is based on a truck engine, I'm sorry, I don't know if this is a Volvo or other base unit. It is a 4 cylinder, and therefore not so refined as the D3, but more robust, and will probably last longer in a planing boat, where you are using the engine at quite a high duty cycle.
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D4 is not a truck engine base unit, I was developed by Deutz for Volvo specifically as a marine engine, having a Lanchester shaft makes it a particularly sweet motor for a four banger.
 
D4 and D6 are pure marine motors.

Dont go anywhere near a D3!! as spannerman says, I can add a list to his too.

If its a D4 you want then go for that one.

Servicing costs are close to each engine, its the larger engines that cost real money to look after.
 
volvopaul said:
.

Dont go anywhere near a D3!!
Click to expand...

A year ago I bought my 2005 model Bavaria 29 , 2 x D3 160 , 170 hours . Since then i have added 60 hours. Over and above the annual engine / leg servicing ,the heat exchangers have been cleaned, stats replaced and crank case breather pipes replaced. i have also had raw water strainers fitted - dunno why they were not fitted originally.

By coincidence a Sealine S29 is berthed next to me also with D3 160s of the same vintage as my Bavaria As far as i know the owner is happy with his Sealine as I am happy with my boat - albeit twelve months is not a long time in boat ownership terms.

" Don' t go anywhere near a D3 "

is pretty strong stuff -but i respect your knowledge and advice.

I wonder whether i should distance myself from a D3 and sell the boat . Could you tell me please, based on your experience , what nightmares might be in store for me if i keep the boat.

As always, many thanks for the contributions you make to this forum.
 
beejay190 said:
A year ago I bought my 2005 model Bavaria 29 , 2 x D3 160 , 170 hours . Since then i have added 60 hours. Over and above the annual engine / leg servicing ,the heat exchangers have been cleaned, stats replaced and crank case breather pipes replaced. i have also had raw water strainers fitted - dunno why they were not fitted originally.

By coincidence a Sealine S29 is berthed next to me also with D3 160s of the same vintage as my Bavaria As far as i know the owner is happy with his Sealine as I am happy with my boat - albeit twelve months is not a long time in boat ownership terms.

" Don' t go anywhere near a D3 "

is pretty strong stuff -but i respect your knowledge and advice.

I wonder whether i should distance myself from a D3 and sell the boat . Could you tell me please, based on your experience , what nightmares might be in store for me if i keep the boat.

As always, many thanks for the contributions you make to this forum.
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To add to spannermans post , ive seen a few in a volvo dealer removed from boats and scrapped as they are just beyond economical repair when major parts fail.

If you use the engines as they should be used, ie at sea and under reasonable load then im sure they may be reliable, but use them on inland waterways and problems will start, relating to seized turbo actuators, the variable vanes seize in the turbo, latestarter quotes" vvt turbos have no place in the marine environment" quite right , salt water enters the turbo and seizes it up.

I can tell you if you have an early model the ecu is no longer available, but the main question you have to ask yourself is why have volvo totally revamped the d3 into the second evolution?
 
beejay190 said:
A year ago I bought my 2005 model Bavaria 29 , 2 x D3 160 , 170 hours . Since then i have added 60 hours. Over and above the annual engine / leg servicing ,the heat exchangers have been cleaned, stats replaced and crank case breather pipes replaced. i have also had raw water strainers fitted - dunno why they were not fitted originally.

By coincidence a Sealine S29 is berthed next to me also with D3 160s of the same vintage as my Bavaria As far as i know the owner is happy with his Sealine as I am happy with my boat - albeit twelve months is not a long time in boat ownership terms.

" Don' t go anywhere near a D3 "

is pretty strong stuff -but i respect your knowledge and advice.

I wonder whether i should distance myself from a D3 and sell the boat . Could you tell me please, based on your experience , what nightmares might be in store for me if i keep the boat.

As always, many thanks for the contributions you make to this forum.
Click to expand...

Sorry if ive offended you over my comment, its just that the d4 is far superior engine, but im glad your happy and not experiencing any problems, im always happy to help on this forum.
 
but the main question you have to ask yourself is why have volvo totally revamped the d3 into the second evolution?[/QUOTE said:
Presumably as Volvo ( the car company) revamped their D5 engine and the old spec D5 engines (= Volvo Penta D3 engines) were no longer available to Volvo Penta ( a completely different company to Volvo cars).

Graham
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GrahamHR said:
Presumably as Volvo ( the car company) revamped their D5 engine and the old spec D5 engines (= Volvo Penta D3 engines) were no longer available to Volvo Penta ( a completely different company to Volvo cars).

Graham
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Graham,

Volvo have always been a little patchy in their approach to engine design and manufacture.

For example their short six cylinder gasoline engine was designed by Volvo but ownership is vested in Ford and is built at Fords Bridgend U.K facility.

Until 2000 Volvo's five jug diesel motor was actually purchased in from VW. When Ford purchased Volvo cars they had the money to invest in their own automotive diesel engine the D5244T from a clean sheet of paper. VW 5 was iron block alloy head, D5244 is all alloy. Design is somewhat compromised as it is intended for short transverse automotive applications. Changes to base motor have been in order to enable engine to meet changes in vehicle exhaust emissions. Not 100% sure but I suspect that ownership of the engine and plant where it is built in Sweden is still vested in Ford Europe.

D5244T motors are simpified for marine use and then shipped to VP for marinisation. Having looked at early D3's VP appear to have done a pi55 poor job.
Volvo did struggle a bit with soundness the base design I suspect due to lack of experience, they also took a widdy bit out of the stroke changing displacement from 2,401 cc to exactly 2,400, probably due to taxation classes somewhere in the World.

To sum up D3 is first and foremost an automotive base motor modified (poorly many say) for marine applications. I would assume lack of ECU availability of early ECU's may be something to do with VP not being 100% in control of component supply chain, sounds like a typically hard nosed call from Ford Europe to me.
 
Exactly. Many D3's were sold, and most are happy with their engines.

The trouble is at resale time: you don't really know if you are buying from a satisfied owner or from one who has a fixed smile and gritted teeth thinking "glad to get shot of this - too many problems."
 
FlowerPower said:
The trouble is at resale time: you don't really know if you are buying from a satisfied owner or from one who has a fixed smile and gritted teeth thinking "glad to get shot of this - too many problems."
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Fair point I suppose. But: We have D3 160 in our Nimbus. Just in the last month we have added 40 plus hours to the hour readings, so these now stand at 352.2.

What we have done since purchasing the boat brand new is to keep a log book, this shows every litre of fuel purchased - the date, and the engine hours at the time of fill. The engine has always been serviced by a Volvo authorised agent, and the service book has been stamped. A seller who valued and looked after his boat - or car for that matter (as we do likewise) should do same surely.
 
volvopaul said:
but the main question you have to ask yourself is why have volvo totally revamped the d3 into the second evolution?
Click to expand...

Thanks for all your comments....most helpful! Can anyone tell me from what date the second evolution D3 started production, and is it any more reliable than the original version? How can you tell if its a second evolution D3?

Cheers, Allan
 
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