Volvo D series failures

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spannerman

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Well now we have got an answer from Volvo about the 36 odd failures we have experienced along the west coast of Norway, and seems unique to our part of the world as they reckon they don't get failures on the eastern (Oslo) side or in Sweden.
They say its the blend our local refineries are producing. Its 'dry' as they put it so they recommend owners use diesel additive to 'sweeten' the fuel, a bit like using Redex in petrol in the old days.
Apparently the detonation is very hard on the injector nozzles and it causes them to crack or fall off causing either mechanical damage or cylinder bore washing resulting in worn cylinders and overpressure in the sump resulting in loss of oil through the engine breather, which I can confirm as we had a D6 dump 15 of its 20 litres in the bilge before the death rattle set in.

Watch this space....!
 
I can understand that up to a point, but why does it only affect the newer D-series models, and not the older engines?

Higher injection pressures, shorter combustion times, higher compression ratios?

Shouldn't an injector nozzle be used to things going "bang" very close to it?

dv.
 
Link to issues here for anyone not familiar

http://www.batliv.com/wip4/bildekarusell.epl?id=179395&offset=3


If they blow so quickly with dodgy fuel, doesnt it mean that they will blow in the UK and elsewhere as they get older ?


eg
If they blow with in a year on slightly different fuel

they will blow after 5 years with quality fuel that is left to degrade in the bottom of a 5 year old fuel tank especially a boat that is not used much over the winter .
 
My only opinion of these new engines is "Ive seen it coming for a long time" as they are tested at the factory on clean road spec fuel I also think 435 hp is too much for the design and block capacity. Enough said .....
 
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I also think 435 hp is too much for the design and block capacity...

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What do you think is enough from this block then? I have 350s' and I'm starting to wonder.

Currently, 'Houston - has a problem' /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif with a bearing failure which Volvo say is a 'one off' and not heard of before on D6. This is at the drive plate end damaging the bell housing but not the leg U/J. Had problems getting parts from Sweden because that had not supplied them before for D6 which sort of confirms their surprise at this problem.

For the record, Volvo have been extrmely helpful on this, constant liaison and really pulling their fingers out to help, parts arrive on Monday! They couldn't have done more, so a big thank you there. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
It's great to hear that Volvo are pulling out the stops for you. The weather is a bit hopeless this weekend anyway. Hope she gets fixed soon.

>What do you think is enough from this block then? I have 350s' and I'm starting to wonder.

Being as the old TAMD63P delivered 370hp from 5.5L, I don't see how 350/370hp from the same sized block is "pushing the block". Someone else made this point and complained that this "wasn't progress". I don't know, there's no pleasing some people /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

dv.
 
I think the old 5.5 liter 63P was 370hp in the 90s. (1994). So i dont think the engine block is overloaded. Today car engines reach 100hp pr liter.
Steyr Yanmar mercruiser have higher rating bmep/piston speed than volvo!

(I dont know if volvo is producing D4 and D6 themselves!
A lot of internet pages indicates that volvo is only focusing on engines between 7 and 18 liters. Deutz is producing 3.6 to 7 liters engines.
Perkins smaller. D1 and D2?)


Old link from 1998 indicates start of cooporation!

http://www3.volvo.com/investors/financial_reports.php3?sublevel=six.98/index.php3!

http://www3.volvo.com/investors/financial_reports.php3?sublevel=six.98/index.php3 [/ url]
 
My original post was in 2008 since then I have been to Volvo on a D4/6 injection system course, and there we got the latest from the horses mouth.
There is a tiny 1.4 mm ball in the injector and if water gets in the fuel it causes cavitation and the balls surface deteriorates and it no longer seals correctly, this then causes the injector to overfuel resulting in higher cylinder pressures and blown injector sleeves allowing coolant to leak or the oil to be washed away resulting in catastrophic failure such as thrown rods.
They have now coated the ball with something to resist corrosion and since they have been used in production we haven't had one failure.
So I guess the truth lies in the middle somewhere, but its true these engines require fuel to be filtered to a much higher degree than the old systems and they don't tolerate water in the fuel at all.
 
Interressting! So volvo now know the truth? The engines are more water proof now?

Did they tell why this was occuring on mainly brand new engines?

And only on the west coast in Norway?

To bend this conrod its nessasary with 900bars. This is not possible by combustion! Did they explain?

Why dont volvo use a flow fuse on the inlet of the nozzle! Everybody else is doing that!

Have you read the volvo report from 2007?

Pichture of the piston showing no overheat! Only plastic cold deformation!

The new nozzles do they have a new part number? A lot of penta owners here in Norway want to by new ones to avoid problems! Lates update i had was that 2008 models were unsafe!
 
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Any thoughts on the bigger D series engines? I have a pair of D12 800's (2007) on my Fairline, so far they've not missed a beat (450hrs). The boat is in Sardinia and I don't know much about the quality of the diesel there...assume it's not too bad! Should I be adding an additive? Are the valve clearances previously mentioned part of the standard servicing regime? Any other 'gremlins' to watch out for?!
 
The D12's are good engines. Make sure that the coolant is never topped up with normal tap water though. The calcium in the water here in Mallorca blocks the aftercooler to the point where the plastic cover melts. The lower powered D12's are ok though.

You can pretty much be sure that the valve clearances have not been done yet and should have been. The Ph50, Sq58 need the saloon floor to be lifted to remove the valve cover.

Never had too many problems with the fuel systems but treatments can't harm along with regular fuel filter replacement and prefilter draining.
 
I think D12 have a unit injector! This is safer, more fail safe and if one fails the others vill run! Its also less sensitive for water and dirt in the fuel!
Fuel consumtion is better due to shorter injection period!

The D12 is a truck engine and the number of accumulated hours is large compared to D4 and D6. D4 and D6 are only used in marine pleasure engines!
 
The saloon floor does have to be lifted to do the valves on Sq 58. However it's not as bad as you think. Most dealers/mechanics think you have to remove the whole sofa and on my last Sq58 they did in fact do that. But you don't. You just remove a few screws at bottom of sofa, pack it up 3inches with wedges, and slide out the access panels in the floor then do the valves. I know this for sure becuase Volvopaul and I have just done exactly this today. I'll post photos

All that said, I wish they'd built the Sq58 with 4 inches more of gunwhale height then it would have been possbile to do the valves without removing the saloon floor.
 
Eeeek,:eek: that's a bit of a worry. How often should the valve clearances be checked? Every service? If it involves lifting the floor I wonder if they've ever been done?! Look forward to the pics and will see if I can't get Volvo Sardinia to follow suit. Thanks for all this.
 
Volvo D6 D12

I am just a little surprised how a D6 thread became hijacked to a D12 thread. The two engines owe NOTHING to each other, just the Volvo name and being painted green.

D12 is a fine unit injector heavy duty engine designed by engineering team in Stockholm, the D6 came out of an engineering team working out of Ulm in Germany and is also an excellent common rail mid range motor.

D12 is a littlle cumbersome as it had to use the same machine tools as the the old 122 which ended up with it being a little too tall and in 1997 D12 had a chunk of meat built into the block, making it a heavy 12 litre motor. Engine works well in automotive, industrial and marine applicatins. Only weakness is in constant speed high output applications where the high camshaft hertz stress loadings can cause camshaft spalling, typically G drive. This is the very reason why attention to overhead ajustments is important. The D13 marine will eventually replace all D12's for Tier 3 emissions with the timing gear where it should be, on the rear of the engine.

As I said D6 is also a fine and robust motor. I have to disagree with Volvopaul regarding is comments regarding lack of displacement. Fresh air inside an engine counts for little, the ability of an engine to develop reliable power is all about the robust nature of the base motor components. D6 has a crankshaft with with generous bearing areas small and small crank overlap. It is a fundimentally robust motor.

If there are issues with the D6 fuel system Volvo have to bear the total blame for failing to police their fuel system installation guidelines with their customers, as to electronics issues I suspect it is the same story of poor installation practices.

From a design perspective I have hated the concept of copper injector sleeves with a vengence since Bedford and Leyland days, Volvo always seemed to get away with it in the past, however it does represent a bit of a fuse in the base design.

What else do D6 and D12 have in common, nobody mentions their socialbility, they start clean, and D4/D6 are quiet.
 
Sorry, my fault, I saw the thread title 'D series failures' and thought something in it might be relevant to my D12's and Spannermans first post didn't seem exclusively aimed at D6's. Many apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick :confused:
 
Im still a little confused. How can a nozzle that hang a little give higher pressure in the cylinder?

Only way I can think of is if VP are using pre injections at full/high load and the nozzle dont close between pre and main injection! That can increase the fiering pressure! But up to above 900bars? No way!

In order to get higher pressure , timing must be adjusted earlier or the ignition rate must be increased. (Increasing the boost pressure also gives higher cylinder pressure! 15bara boost gives 750bar compression pressure!) It can probably only be done by increasing the injection pressure. But here is the common rail! So then all cylinders have high pressure! You should increase the injection rate quite a bit to get a higher pressure!

Nozzle may not be open all the time! Normal opening is probably about 30 degrees crank!
If the nozzle was hanging open and the fuel ran out would probably have dotted the rail and the engine stopped!
High pressure pump has probably over-capacity but if a nozzle open an entire cycle 720 deg then high pressure pump has to provide a flow of 600% times the normal flow. It is probably not possible!

Now there are quite a lot engines that have replaced the nozzles because of viberations, but do not think they are related to the sleve problems!

Nozzles will be forced out by pressure of 950bar. So high press, it is thermodynamically impossible to generate with 1:17 in the compression ratio!

The damages indicate fluid in the combustion chamber! Conrod is bended and piston have cavitation marks! On some of the engines two of the conrods vere damaged. Nozzle was ok! The cupper sleeve were expanded!

You have to read this repport Latestarter1. Sorry i cant upload this its 3.94MB

Are these engines D4 and D4 prodused in Ulm asvell? I know Deutz are making them!

D12 is a pure Volvo!
 
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