Volvo 2002 Starter Solenoid

[Houleaux]

I've never had a problem with the starter side of this engine until now. After about a month without being used, I turned the key to start the engine and nothing happened.

When the key is turned, there is 12v to the spade terminal on the solenoid. There is a barely perceptible click from the solenoid which may just be an electrical spark inside it rather than anything actually moving. There is also a draw of approx 9A reported by my Nasa BM-1. No voltage is transferred to the large terminal on the starter side of the solenoid.

If I connect the two large terminals on the solenoid together the starter motor will spin (but not turn the engine). If I do this while the key is turned there is no difference - i.e. the solenoid is not engaging the starter gear with the flywheel.

All this leads me to believe that the solenoid is seized internally. A leak from the heat exchanger - recently fixed - has led to corrosion of the starter and solenoid externally, so it's not impossible that some water has made its way inside.

The problem is getting access to fix it! To remove the starter it looks like the alternator and heat exchanger have to come off. Having only recently got my fresh water system water-tight, I'm reluctant to do this, but a metal cooling pipe between the heat exchanger and the freshwater pump passes right in front of the solenoid. This same pipe restricts access to the large terminal closest to the starter motor, so I don't think I can remove the solenoid with the starter in situ.

Ultimately I suspect I will have to bite the bullet and take the starter motor out with all that that entails, but before doing so I thought I'd ask if anyone can suggest anything that I might try first to stir the solenoid back into action (I've tried tapping it with a hammer whilst the key is turned to no avail!).

Also, has anyone managed to remove the solenoid on this engine with the starter in situ?

Or can anyone tell me if it's possible to move the solenoid a little without disconnecting the starter terminal from it once the securing bolts are removed (I can't even see the lead on the solenoid terminal that goes to the starter motor, so I can't tell if there is a suitable length of cable on it to allow some flexibility).

As always, any help would be much appreciated.

Rob

 

[pcatterall]

Just a bit suprised that the starter motor only ‘turns’ rather than turning over the engine.
If your connection accross the two terminals was good then the starter should spin and engage as normal.
This makes me think that possibly there is a fault with your batteries or a connection between the battery and the solonoid.
I would want to be able to start the engine by shorting across the main solonoid terminals before I was convinced that the problem was in the solonoid.
In guess you know the dangers of doing this though ( I melted my steel watch strap and the flesh under it doing just this) !!

 

[Houleaux]

Just a bit suprised that the starter motor only ‘turns’ rather than turning over the engine.
If your connection accross the two terminals was good then the starter should spin and engage as normal.
This makes me think that possibly there is a fault with your batteries or a connection between the battery and the solonoid.
I would want to be able to start the engine by shorting across the main solonoid terminals before I was convinced that the problem was in the solonoid.
In guess you know the dangers of doing this though ( I melted my steel watch strap and the flesh under it doing just this) !!

Thanks for your reply.

With an inertia-type starter motor what you say is true, but the one fitted to the 2002 is a preengaged starter motor which relies on the solenoid pushing the starter pinion into engagement with the flywheel. The response I got when connecting the two large terminals together was therefore as expected. Unfortunately I can't get to the lever that the solenoid moves to engage the pinion with the flywheel without removing the solenoid....

 

[bigwow]

Have you checked the relay situated under the multiblock fuse?

 

[reeac]

When you say that there is 12v at the spade terminal on the solenoid is that actually on the solenoid or on the outer surface of the female spade terminal attached to the wire? I ask because I have had frequent, maybe annual, problems with poor conductivity at this joint. Easily cured with a bit of emery paper. It's due to slight corrosion and the fact that you mention a leak and consequent corrosion in that area just makes me wonder.

 

[Houleaux]

Have you checked the relay situated under the multiblock fuse?

Thanks bigwow.

I haven't checked it, but as I'm getting 12v to the solenoid terminal (and a 9A current draw) I assume all is well there.

 

[Houleaux]

When you say that there is 12v at the spade terminal on the solenoid is that actually on the solenoid or on the outer surface of the female spade terminal attached to the wire? I ask because I have had frequent, maybe annual, problems with poor conductivity at this joint. Easily cured with a bit of emery paper. It's due to slight corrosion and the fact that you mention a leak and consequent corrosion in that area just makes me wonder.

Hi reeac. Thanks for the suggestion.

I disconnected the wire to the solenoid spade terminal and measured the voltage on the disconnected wire. I got the 12v (ish - I was only testing to see if there was power or not) from that wire. I cleaned up the male terminal before replacing the wire. I've also tried taking power from the main +ve solenoid terminal (from the battery) directly to the spade terminal on the solenoid with no response. I've done this previously and been able to start the engine in this way without difficulty.

There appears to be a good earth connection between the solenoid body and the negative battery lead.

 

[reeac]

Just to be sure - if there's 12volts at the solenoid then the instrument panel warning lights should illuminate when the key switch is on. If that's the case then maybe the solenoid IS seized.

 

[NickRobinson]

All pointing to a seized solenoid, especially if hammer trick didn't work.

Engine designers /fitters who make service items into major overhauls should be...... shunned

 

[SAWDOC]

I recently removed the starter on my vp md11c - I had the ngine out at the time- I sent it away for servicing and it returned with a new solenoid attached so yes they do deteriorate.

 

[Heckler]

Thanks bigwow.

I haven't checked it, but as I'm getting 12v to the solenoid terminal (and a 9A current draw) I assume all is well there.

The 9amps will be the coil energising, the piston isnt moving, you have proved that. Take the starter off and strip the solenoid and clean it up.
S

 

[Vara]

Following from Skipper Stu, strip off, clean solenoid piston, contacts etc, test, NFG, take to service engineers who declare it US/BER. Buy new one and fit.

I managed to get the starter and solenoid of my 2003, without dismantling anything, is the 2002 so different, or is access the problem?

 

[pvb]

I managed to get the starter and solenoid of my 2003, without dismantling anything, is the 2002 so different, or is access the problem?

Shorter engine, making access more difficult.

 

[Houleaux]

Shorter engine, making access more difficult.

Regrettably I think that's the case. I can only just squeeze a combination ring spanner between the coolant pipe and solenoid to get it close to the nut (touching both parts in the process), but I can't get it onto the nut as there isn't enough swinging room to line up the flats (there is a protruding ridge on the solenoid between the large terminals that prevents this). I shall go back tomorrow with a selection of cranked (is that the right term?) ring spanners to see if I have more luck with one of those - if I'm lucky the offset might clear the ridge on the solenoid. If not, the coolant pipe will need to come off to remove the solenoid (which means moving the heat exchanger backwards, which requires other pipes to be withdrawn from it, new seals, coolant etc.....). If I have to remove the starter itself the alternator will need to come off too as otherwise there's insufficient room to pull it clear of the bellhousing.

Ho hum...

 

[VicS]

Just a thought.

Have you looked at the exploded parts diagrams on http://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-spare-parts.aspx

Whether or not you can remove the solenoid with the motor in situ may depend on the starter motor fitted.

Looking at the diags I'd say some you wont, some you might.

Even if you get the solenoid off you may find the trouble lies in the mechanical gubbins that engages the pinion with the ring gear and you still have to get the motor off.

Personally I'd feel inclined to bite the bullet and get the whole thing onto the workshop bench for a full overhaul. Solenoid, brushes bearings and " mechanical gubbins"

 

[Vara]

I'd go along with Vic, get it off and have the thing checked/serviced/replaced.

IIRC to take the whole lot off, it was necessary/easier to use an Allen key with a ball head as you couldn't get a straight run at it.

 

[Houleaux]

Thanks for the tips.

I think if I can get the solenoid off without disturbing the cooling system etc. then I'll see if I can just fix that. If I can't, and I suspect that I won't be able to, then I'll replace starter and solenoid. I'd hate to do just the solenoid having removed the starter and then have to repeat the process 6 months down the line because the starter's had it!

If replacement is the option taken, the question will then be what with? The Volvo part at £740 (I don't think so!) the Keypart one at £180 or the ebay version at £59.99. I want reliability as I've given up work to go sailing and don't want to be trying to source replacement parts when away from home if I can help it, but I don't want to pay more than I have to for the same reason! I'm leaning towards Keypart but I'm not really sure why the ebay one shouldn't do the job. Anyone got any personal experience of any of these options?

 

[VicS]

Thanks for the tips.

I think if I can get the solenoid off without disturbing the cooling system etc. then I'll see if I can just fix that. If I can't, and I suspect that I won't be able to, then I'll replace starter and solenoid. I'd hate to do just the solenoid having removed the starter and then have to repeat the process 6 months down the line because the starter's had it!

If replacement is the option taken, the question will then be what with? The Volvo part at £740 (I don't think so!) the Keypart one at £180 or the ebay version at £59.99. I want reliability as I've given up work to go sailing and don't want to be trying to source replacement parts when away from home if I can help it, but I don't want to pay more than I have to for the same reason! I'm leaning towards Keypart but I'm not really sure why the ebay one shouldn't do the job. Anyone got any personal experience of any of these options?

If it were mine my first thoughts would be to strip it down and see if a clean up/de-rust etc. would sort it out. You know the motor runs so maybe will need no more. Inspect brushes of course but I never have replaced starter motor brushes.
I decided it need more attention than I was able to give it then it would be off to an automobile electricians for refurbishment, at least to get a price.

 

[Vara]

Thanks for the tips.

I think if I can get the solenoid off without disturbing the cooling system etc. then I'll see if I can just fix that. If I can't, and I suspect that I won't be able to, then I'll replace starter and solenoid. I'd hate to do just the solenoid having removed the starter and then have to repeat the process 6 months down the line because the starter's had it!

If replacement is the option taken, the question will then be what with? The Volvo part at £740 (I don't think so!) the Keypart one at £180 or the ebay version at £59.99. I want reliability as I've given up work to go sailing and don't want to be trying to source replacement parts when away from home if I can help it, but I don't want to pay more than I have to for the same reason! I'm leaning towards Keypart but I'm not really sure why the ebay one shouldn't do the job. Anyone got any personal experience of any of these options?

I got mine from ebay, £90 IIRC, after having a chat with the seller, noticeably smaller in overall dimension and weight than the original, but fitted fine and works well...touch wood!

Volvo for their part prices take the mickey IMO.

 

[2Tizwoz]

Some Bosch starter solenoids have a nylon centre tube which can swell and cause the plunger to jam. Your water leak would seem a good reason for that to have happened.

Requires a new solenoid to cure the problem but clearly this isn't related to the condition of the motor.

If the bearings gears and brushes are in order the starter should be ok, just a bit of lubrication on the brass bearings and moving parts would be appropriate whilst its off.

There's a bit of cross referencing in this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOLVO-PEN...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item485f8e107c
ebay ad.. Count the number of teeth on the gear and check the other details described that supplier appears to know their business and show good feedback score. Is the lower price you've seen for a 2002 engine or a 2002 car? Starter motors aren't high technology but you may need a heavy soldering iron.