Visiting the bridge

[janeK]

I am a raggie YM student and due to the many discussions of Colregs on the YM 'Scuttlebutt' I am wondering if I requested to the Captain of the P&O mini cruise to Bilbao that I will be travelling on in September, would I be allowed to visit the bridge? The reason being I am interested in seeing exactly how much you can actually see from a bridge of a large vessel with the naked eye with regard to yachts in comparison to radar when crossing a TSS for example?
I would ideally request 2 visits 1) During the day 2) Nighttime for obvious reasons
1) Would this be allowed - if so, would you advise that I write a letter to the Captain and leave it with the Customer service desk on embarcation?

If anyone could give me any pointers in the right direction I would appreciate it

Thanks

Jane

<hr width=100% size=1>Why does a slight tax increase cost you £200 and a substantial tax cut saves you £0.30?
JaneK

 

[cjc]

Hi, Iam a deck officer with the cruise side of P&O and although its not an everyday thing, we often have visitors (passengers) to the bridge, the one thing that I would say is that at times of high traffic density or TSS's etc it is rare that the captain allows them up. Although I never object especially being a "raggie" myself as many have no idea of how highly trained and prof. we really are.
The best way to request would be to send a letter in advance to the operations side, and if that fails just try again when you get on board by sending a letter to the captain via the pursers desk. (sorry I cant be any more specific as Im not on the ferry side of things)
Best of luck, and if you get up there you may be able to pass the word around.

By the way I often pick off yachts by radar at around 9 miles and visual by around 4 (depending on many factors)

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[Swampyhotdog]

Hi There,

I worked on the cross channel ferries for 3 years, and we had quite a lot of people wanting engine room or bridge visits. It was never a problem, they just asked at reception, who usually phoned the E/R or bridge, we then sent someone to meet them.

That was with Stena Line.

Stu

<hr width=100% size=1>As with most posts here - my personal opinion - take it or leave it.
Stu

 

[petem]

We were on the Oriana four years ago and the official word was that bridge visits wrre not allowed. However we asked at the Pursers desk and were granted a visit with about 15 others. We were asked to 'keep it to ourselves'. Note that it was also in port, not at sea. Not sure if 9/11 with have affected things.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.FairlineOwnersClub.com>Fairline Owners Club</A>

 

[janeK]

Thank you to everyone who replied on this thread and PM'd me.

A lot of variations were suggested but I think the way to go is to contact Ops at P&O and if that fails the bursers desk on arrival, letter to the captain in hand.

By the way there is a good thread going on the scuttlebutt, today 09.08.04 'At what distance' posted by Jimi which some of you may wish to participate in

Thanks again

Jane

<hr width=100% size=1>Why does a slight tax increase cost you £200 and a substantial tax cut saves you £0.30?
JaneK

 

[Dyflin]

I think George Bush has probably put an end to many bridge visits now. Thanks to him and his wonderful new world vision for security, there are now varying levels of security on all vessels and ports throughout the world and as a result if there's any hint of a threat (and they seem to come from nowhere) the bridge is secured for authorised people only, sorry.

If it's any help, I can tell you that lights at night are a bugbear of mine. It's usually much easier to pick up a yacht on a radar than to see it visually. Maybe investing in brighter lights is something to consider? Also, just call up a ship if you can read her name or have her exact position and ask them if they can see you on their radars.

~Dyflin

<hr width=100% size=1>Well it's all for me grog, me jolly jolly grog!

 

[Sunnyseeker]

Just interested to hear your (ship perspective) view on this one...
Very occassionaly, like twice in a few years, when caught out in fog near shipping areas (not in the lanes) we've broadcast our position on VHF.
Each time we've had a polite response from a ship within 5 miles roughly saying yep got you on radar we'll pass a mile in front or behind, and they've also told us of other shipping in the area.
We dont have a radar, so the information is usefull and we think it might wake up sleepy bridge crew and help them check on the little blip on their screen.
what are your thoughts on yachts calling up just giving their position and asking for response.
Weve always found merchant ships very helpfull, thankyou big ships, its only when they say "well we'll be in harbour tonight, but theres a huge storm coming your way and I guess at 5 knots you'll get a close look at at that one" that we wish we hadn't called them!

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[janeK]

Giving your position

Thoroughly agree with giving your position, speed & heading when in poor vis especially if in the area of a TSS.
Better to be safe than sorry in my opinion
The main reason for wanting to go on the bridge to view was that many yachts don't 'paint' on radar well at all, and many of those that do only show small and intermittent returns, would these get suppressed by the kits circuitary as 'Sea Returns' until the yacht is within less than 3-4 n.miles???
That is too close in my opinion - one should not rely on the other guy seeing you, one must make your own safe avoidence decisions.
I just wanted to know what you can and can't see.


<hr width=100% size=1>If work was so good, the rich would have kept more of it for themselves.

 

[homa]

Re: Giving your position

Hi JaneK,
See similar post in Reader to reader.
I am presently on a new ferry with "state of the art" integrated bridge equipment. The ship is 18 months old and we can't pick up yachts any better than ships I sailed on 20 years ago.
IMHO the minimum you can do to make your yacht or motor boat as visible as possible (to radar) is to hoist a decent radar reflector (correctly!).
Detection range will depend upon many variables, but sea condition is a major factor.
Happy sailing
homa

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[Talbot]

sorry you should think that yacht lights are difficult to pick up at night. I will accept that this is true in a coastal waters scenario when the light pollution from shore can obscure the nav lights, however, you should also be aware that visible at two miles is the IMO spec. Must sailing yachts run a single 25w bulb , but this can represent a good percentage of available battery power over night. especially when other instruments, autohelm, and VHF are all running as well. Furthermore, it is illegal to use a different bulb, because those particular lights are certified with the bulb as well, and alternatives are not sanctioned. In open ocean, I never had a problem with seeing a yachts lights, and would suggest that you probably have your bridge lighting level set too high!

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[janeK]

Just to let you all know I wasn't allowed due to security levels after 9/11 and the spanish train bomb.
Nevertheless spent many a pleasant hour on the top deck (deck 11) just to get an idea and also to get out of the ghastly air conditioning on board. Mind you didn't see many yachts but saw lots of whales and dolphins which more than made up for it.

Thank you all for your input

JaneK

<hr width=100% size=1>If work was so good, the rich would have kept more of it for themselves.

 

[JayBee]

It is really sad that Janek was not made welcome on the bridge, for reasons we all have to regretfully acknowledge, but not necessarily agree with.

Talbot should be aware that yacht lights ARE often difficult to pick up - regardless of the IMO spec and his erroneous notion that ship's bridges are brightly lit at night at sea. By the way, a ship travelling at 20 knots covers the IMO 2 mile visibility range in 6 minutes - no time at all in big ship terms. As a Master Mariner, maritime pilot and yachtsman I never sail at night in my boat without a powerful, attention grabbing 12v searchlight plugged in and ready for use in the cockpit.

It should also be understood that small white hulls and sails are often very difficult to distinguish from a ship's bridge during the DAY, against a background of breaking seas, short of the horizon.

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[sailorman]

Hi jaybee
as a yottie what colour yacht / boat is most visible
cheers
roger

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[Talbot]

I am well aware of ability to see boats at sea having spent many years travelling around the world on the bridge of different sizes of ship.

White hulls/white sails and breaking seas are a problem, which is one of the reasons that most peoples storm sails are now a bright orange.

I dont think I said anything about a ships bridge being brightly lit at night at sea, and have frequently "chided" others on the bridge for introducing light pollution. However, when a ship approaches a harbour it is a fact of life that there will be considerable light pollution from streetlights, headlights etc, and thus another ships lights are more difficult to see, but then as a "master Mariner" I am sure you already were aware of that!

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[JayBee]

Well Roger, I guess a look at ships' lifeboats provides the answer. But who wants an orange yacht? Next best would be black. Personally, I like white hulls and sails and just accept the fact that the poor, oft maligned merchant ship OOW is not necessarily going to see me as he/she scans the horizon. One reason for regret that people like JaneK now have a problem with bridge visits is that her intelligent interest would probably strike a chord with the professionals and encourage a bit of mutual understanding. There's far too much talk of WAFIs on one side and sleepy/blind/incompetent/no-one-on-the-bridge watchkeepers on the other side of the debate.

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[Dyflin]

I agree that open ocean you can easily pick out a small boats lights, but how often do you come across a yacht sailing across the South Atlantic or the Indian ocean...? In the last ten years I've seen less than five, talked to quite a few on the radio, but it really is quite rare. Even the North Sea is quite empty of sails.

Obviously in coastal waters it's a much more serious problem. There are other large vessels to consider, navigation marks, areas of hazardous navigation, background lights etc. etc. It can be a stressfull time and yacht lights really are underpowered.

Regarding IMO specifications, they are interesting because it is generally easy to pick out a ships navigation lights at about 15-18nm, even though that's far in excess of the stated minimum.

With the 25w bulb representing "a good percentage of available battery power over night", maybe an additional battery is the thing here. Afterall, you're willing to spend good money on all the fancy electronic equipment, why not make sure you get home safely and can use it again next time?

I think a very stong flash light type arrangement is a good idea, the big ships use it to gain other ships attention, why not smaller baots too?

On the subject of colours. If it's any help to white hulled and sail coloured boats, white is the easiest to pick out at night when going up a narrow channel such as into Yarmouth as I found out last summer

<hr width=100% size=1>Well it's all for me grog, me jolly jolly grog!

 

[Talbot]

I dont think you have a grasp of the problem of power generation on a sailing boat. Glibly saying add another battery is not the answer. Most long distance boats keep a very close eye on the power systems and have advanced systems to manage battery power. Biggest drain on power are the autopilot, fridge and freezer plus lights. you can very quickly get up to over 200 amp/hrs per day. Which for a single day means a battery capacity of at least 400 amp/hrs, and preferably 500 (these are deep cycle batteries, so that is like carrying 10 car batteries). What if the journey takes 2 days - the weight and space for this amount of battery is impossible, therefore solar power, wind power, and engine charging are all employed to alleviate the problem - but these all cost a lot of money, so the average raggie is always trying to decide purchase priorities

Most of us carry very strong torchs which are used when necessary to illuminate a sail, or in worst case directly at the ship. (and yes I do understand what impact that has on night vision)

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[Guest]

The only thing wrong with the idea ... is that a Ferry / Mini Cruise Ship is nothing like a Tanker or Bulk Carrier with Bridge way aft .... the view is totally different.

Otherwise - ask and see what happens ....

 

[am2]

In 1998, I managed to get a private viewing of the QE2's Bridge, after writing to the Captain, to ask if it were possible to get to the bridge. I had the whole afternnon up there and It was very enjoyable. QE2 has a fascinating Bridge, even though she is getting on a bit, she has alll the lastest technology up there! Very Priviledged to have done that, as they have now stopped allowing people up to the Bridge, whilst at sea. AM

 

[Dyflin]

I met a pilot who took the QE2 into Cobh (or Ringaskiddy?) when she was in there and he said that although she was a very pretty ship, she was not particularly nice to handle and the bit that annoyed him the most was that the bridge wings were swept back so you couldn't see across the bridge when out on the wing. Just an interesting observation from a non-biased party /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif