Vetus, Beta, nanni or yanmar?

I replaced my MD1 with a Beta on my old boat and was very pleased with it and the back up from Beta.
New boat has a Yanmar - nice engine but feel I am being seriously ripped off on spares for the sail drive following Yanmar decision to give diaphragm seals a service life of 5 years - last weekend I spent over £700 on a few seals and clips required to service the sail drive.
Also engine mounts have failed early on several Yanmars I know (including mine after 700 hours from new) so if you do go Yanmar I would get R&D or Polyflex equivalent engine mounts for the installation.
 
Paddingtonbear said:
Beta are absolutely ridiculous for the cost of spares. I recently enquired about the cost of a gasket set for a 13hp cylinder Kubota based engine as I couldn't believe the price that some friends of mine had been quoted for a decoke. I was quoted over £300 and no I could not get one from a plant firm either. Their oil filters are also £30ish pounds as well. All this info. is heresay as I have a proper engine that doesn't need such fripperies as servicing.

Don't buy any engine with a cam belt and try and avoid any that is vehicle derived as they need to rev.far too fast to be efficient.
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On my previous boat I re-engineered with a Beta and only paid £30.00 (in 2005) for a complete spares kit, including air, oil, impellor "O" rings, etc. so I think £30.00 for an oil filter is probably incorrect.
However at the Royal Show there was a Kubota Stand so I went and enquired about a "Workshop Manual". The standman said,"How old is your engine? I said, "2 years old". (It was at the time). He replied, "Don't bother, you won't need one for at least 10 years"!
Perhaps that's why decoke kits are purportedly so expensive; they don't sell many!
My present yacht has an ageing Volvo MD17D. When I come to replace it I shall choose in the following order,
What will fit; how much alteration to the bearers will be required; what will need the least alteration to the stern gear and propellor; then, amongst the shortlisted, which has the most convenient service points.
One thing that might be worth looking at is how much electronic wizardry is required by the engine since failure of that at sea is almost always terminal.
 
Only From a historical perspective does the MD21 make any sense at all as it is massively overkill in power weight and space by today's standards so start from looking at what you require to drive the boat not at replacing the power you had and could never have used.
The MD21 was based on the 2ltr peugot can engine and was rated at 75hp although you will most likely have a derated unit limited to 3000 revs which was still high at that time but the alternatives were the MD3 which was 36 hp and not fresh water cooled but heavy and would have cost little lessthan the MD21 however I would suggest that if it has run his long you have had good use out of it .
Any of the current range of engine providers including Volvo will give you a smaller lighter unit with more electrical out put and it is often down to things like the installer maintainer or where a filter or exhaust outlet is placed that will make the difference.
 
Kurrawong_Kid said:
On my previous boat I re-engineered with a Beta and only paid £30.00 (in 2005) for a complete spares kit, including air, oil, impellor "O" rings, etc. so I think £30.00 for an oil filter is probably incorrect.
However at the Royal Show there was a Kubota Stand so I went and enquired about a "Workshop Manual". The standman said,"How old is your engine? I said, "2 years old". (It was at the time). He replied, "Don't bother, you won't need one for at least 10 years"!
Perhaps that's why decoke kits are purportedly so expensive; they don't sell many!
My present yacht has an ageing Volvo MD17D. When I come to replace it I shall choose in the following order,
What will fit; how much alteration to the bearers will be required; what will need the least alteration to the stern gear and propellor; then, amongst the shortlisted, which has the most convenient service points.
One thing that might be worth looking at is how much electronic wizardry is required by the engine since failure of that at sea is almost always terminal.
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Excellent advice.......my guess is I'm going to have it all replaced as the MD21a is a lump of an engine compared to newer models.......I've got all the engine brochures now (LBS yesterday), now it's study, analysis before decision making........
 
scottie said:
Only From a historical perspective does the MD21 make any sense at all as it is massively overkill in power weight and space by today's standards so start from looking at what you require to drive the boat not at replacing the power you had and could never have used.
The MD21 was based on the 2ltr peugot can engine and was rated at 75hp although you will most likely have a derated unit limited to 3000 revs which was still high at that time but the alternatives were the MD3 which was 36 hp and not fresh water cooled but heavy and would have cost little lessthan the MD21 however I would suggest that if it has run his long you have had good use out of it .
Any of the current range of engine providers including Volvo will give you a smaller lighter unit with more electrical out put and it is often down to things like the installer maintainer or where a filter or exhaust outlet is placed that will make the difference.
Click to expand...

You're right about the MD21, my elderly example which won't be getting anything like that amount of power now is still more than enough, hence I have my eye on a 40-50hp engine. I could probably go even lower but my Rasmus is a heavy girl, with big wetted surface.....
 
The starting point is the property as that is what drives the boat. The size of your aperture will determine the maximum diameter of the property. There are formulae for working out the power required to drive the prop. Nigel Calder and Dave Geer are two sources.
 
King Penguin said:
You're right about the MD21, my elderly example which won't be getting anything like that amount of power now is still more than enough, hence I have my eye on a 40-50hp engine. I could probably go even lower but my Rasmus is a heavy girl, with big wetted surface.....
Click to expand...
I agonised for a while about shifting down from 55 to 36 HP, but a short experience off Holland, being driven back by 40 knots of wind and adverse current, persuaded me that maybe 55 HP occasionally helps. Also, it is worth comparing the engines' fuel consumption curves for a given torque/rpm.
 
I have a 10 year old 11HP Vetus in my boat. Nice engine, but the bits you need to get at aren't very easy to get at. The impeller housing/cover is on the starboard side - which is fine. It faces aft...:(
 
Imagine if you could sail somewhere, re engine without paying VAT eh?
When you return the engine is depreciated for import and VAT innit
 
I have a Nab 35 - same boat basically as the Rasmus and the HR 35 but joinery finished off in Southampton by Reg Freeman. Built 1972. I re engined 4 years ago and like you are now, went through a challenging time of deciding which engine to go for.

I finally chose the Vetus M4.17 (42 hp) and after 300+ hours of totally trouble free motoring am not sorry. I can't really compare it's performance with the others but in all aspects it has been reliable, economic and SIMPLE. The engine has more power than theoretically necessary as I was advised that 30 hp would be fine but somehow I couldn't accept such a big drop down from 50hp +. I would avoid Volvo and go to something based on a straightforward agricultural bog standard diesel engine which is what the Mitsubishi is. The Vetus was certainly a very good deal at the time price wise but other factors were:-

The big issue is making sure that the new engine can fit. The engine mounts on the MD21A are not at the same level on the engine - the rear ones are higher to allow for the 6 degree angle below horizontal that the prop shaft is. The engine needs to be mounted sloping backwards at this angle. The location of the mounts on the Vetus are level (as all engines) and in an OK position. I did not want to try and cobble up a new frame in steel and doubted that there really is enough room to fit one so I rebuilt the engine bed in composite wood encased in grp. There is no possibility of raising the existing bed up so beware this major factor doesn't catch you out.

The various connections to the engine - raw water, exhaust, calorifier, engine controls etc were best suited to the positions on the Vetus. Access to the raw water pump is good. I have subsequently fitted a Speedseal which makes it even easier to get at the impeller.

I took the opportunity once the old Volvo was out (this is an interesting exercise if you do not wish to try or can't remove the hardtop. I couldn't without doing major damage. The Volvo is a mighty beast and likely to be 100 kg more than the replacement) to strip the engine compartment completely and start again including a thorough clean and paint job. You will need a new exhaust system, prop shaft and prop and probably electrics too. It's also a one off chance to take the access covers off the fuel tank and give all 5 compartments a good clean out.

If you would like to pm me with contact details I will happily send you some photos that I took along the way. I did all the work myself so would be pleased to advise. When you finally have the new engine though, you still won't be able to steer the boat going backwards! Unless you, like me, have
fitted a bowthruster. No longer do I enter strange marinas with the pulse racing. Some may accuse me of poor helming ability but they can't have had the fun of a long keel and small rudder. I do my sailing for pleasure only.
 
timrobap said:
I have a Nab 35 - same boat basically as the Rasmus and the HR 35 but joinery finished off in Southampton by Reg Freeman. Built 1972. I re engined 4 years ago and like you are now, went through a challenging time of deciding which engine to go for.

I finally chose the Vetus M4.17 (42 hp) and after 300+ hours of totally trouble free motoring am not sorry. I can't really compare it's performance with the others but in all aspects it has been reliable, economic and SIMPLE. The engine has more power than theoretically necessary as I was advised that 30 hp would be fine but somehow I couldn't accept such a big drop down from 50hp +. I would avoid Volvo and go to something based on a straightforward agricultural bog standard diesel engine which is what the Mitsubishi is. The Vetus was certainly a very good deal at the time price wise but other factors were:-

The big issue is making sure that the new engine can fit. The engine mounts on the MD21A are not at the same level on the engine - the rear ones are higher to allow for the 6 degree angle below horizontal that the prop shaft is. The engine needs to be mounted sloping backwards at this angle. The location of the mounts on the Vetus are level (as all engines) and in an OK position. I did not want to try and cobble up a new frame in steel and doubted that there really is enough room to fit one so I rebuilt the engine bed in composite wood encased in grp. There is no possibility of raising the existing bed up so beware this major factor doesn't catch you out.

The various connections to the engine - raw water, exhaust, calorifier, engine controls etc were best suited to the positions on the Vetus. Access to the raw water pump is good. I have subsequently fitted a Speedseal which makes it even easier to get at the impeller.

I took the opportunity once the old Volvo was out (this is an interesting exercise if you do not wish to try or can't remove the hardtop. I couldn't without doing major damage. The Volvo is a mighty beast and likely to be 100 kg more than the replacement) to strip the engine compartment completely and start again including a thorough clean and paint job. You will need a new exhaust system, prop shaft and prop and probably electrics too. It's also a one off chance to take the access covers off the fuel tank and give all 5 compartments a good clean out.

If you would like to pm me with contact details I will happily send you some photos that I took along the way. I did all the work myself so would be pleased to advise. When you finally have the new engine though, you still won't be able to steer the boat going backwards! Unless you, like me, have
fitted a bowthruster. No longer do I enter strange marinas with the pulse racing. Some may accuse me of poor helming ability but they can't have had the fun of a long keel and small rudder. I do my sailing for pleasure only.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for posting, just what I was looking for, I visited the Vetus stand at the BS and your engine was the one they recommended, and a good price too! Yes, would very much like you to PM or email me if you would, it would be very useful to see the photos and discuss the installation further.
I'm well aware it's not just the engine that needs replacing and I can't wait to get into the fuel tank to see what gunge is at the bottom, about an inch and a half of yuk is what I'm expecting.......

Many thanks again for posting.......
 
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