Very, Very sorry but headlining again!

Swanrad2

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Stripped the fabric from the fore-peak of my centaur and have been left with solid horrible looking yellow glue having removed the black foamy stuff. Like not eating yellow snow I am keen to avoid inhaling yellow glue, can I leave it on and glue the new headlining to it or am I gonna have to wet and dry the lot off? Please, please say leave it......
 

Ocean Hound

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Been there and done it! Ideally you have remove all of the old adhesive in order to get a sound base. There are commercial solvents available. There is also a knack to replacing the headlining which involves using two types of adhesive, one brushed on the cabin top and one sprayed onto the fabric. Alternatively you could get someone like Roger Nantais -Poole (ex Westerly) to do it for you - next time I will!
 

mikejames

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Yep, if the glue is crusty you can often pick at it and peel off sheets. For the remainder I use a Sandvik scraper wearing protection from the foam and the fibreglass bits that shower off. I found a 100mm wide closed foam roller a good tool to apply the cabin top glue - the one I had was for 'gloss paint' and it did not dissolve (much) and glopped less glue in the wrong places unlike the brush. Then spray adhesive to cover new headlining foam 100% then stick it to yourself and the wrong place then swear then get high on the glue and mess it up (even with a solvent absorbing respirator) - hint here is dont try to get the edges 100% even (go for over size) immediately after applying headlining - wait for the fumes to go away then trim. It is 1000% harder repairing a stupid gash in the new headlining rather than waiting. Cover the butt joins with a batten screwed with short screws through the deckhead into the balsa core.
 

jff

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I did this job on my Beneteau last year, you have my sympathy!
My problem sounds like it was a little worse than yours, since I had foam imbedded in the old glue, presumably from a previous attempt at repair. After many hours of trying to scrape, disolve and abrade, I found that the quickest approach was to apply some gelled toluene, leave that to soak for a few minutes, scrape of whatever came loose , then grind the rest off with a brass wire brush in an angle grinder. A little more toluene and the surface was near enough to perfect.

I was not impressed by the upholsterers comment when he came down to the boat to see how I was going. I was just attacking the last section, and after I'd scraped the disolved goop away he said, "you know you could stop there, that surface is fine". His opinion was that if you can get a reasonably clean surface of glue, which is still well attached to the hull, then you'll be fine.

I used gelled toluene because without the gell it evaporates to quickly down here. I'd guess that acetone would be fine for you, just remember to use a good mask designed for use with solvents

have fun

John
 

boatmike

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There is an alternative that does an even better job than the original. Instead of sticking the headlining direct to the roof, cut panels of thin marine ply (you can in fact buy it under 1/8 in thick) to fit the roof and sides. If you stick the headlining to this off the boat, turn the edges over when it has stuck and staple down with stainless staples, all you are left needing to stick to the boat are thin strips between the panels. I am pretty sure that the Centaur has balsa cored decks so you can screw these panels on place if you are careful to only go through the inner skin and get button heads covered in the same fabric to cover the screw heads. On the sides you will need to stick blocks of wood to the GRP (sikaflex is good) to take the screws as it wont be cored.
If you need more info PM me.
 

FullCircle

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There was a PBO article iabout 3 years ago on making plywood covered headlining panels - and they used a Centaur.


I echo the sentiments above. Mine was crumbly and I wore a full hooded boiler suit, goggles and a 3m breather mask, then I hit it with a selection of rotatiing wire brushes in the drill. Took about 2 hours with 2 of us working in shifts.
Then 6 hours to hoover it all up! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If I did it again, I would favour the panel route.
 

gandy

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We cleaned up with a wire brush (hand, not electric) then kitchen scourer where the glue had deteriorated. Any glue that was too solid to remove like that was left. Only time will tell whether the new headlining will fall off.

I guess the risk would be that your new glue would be incompatible with the old. Why do a small test. See how solid the new stuff is glued over the old.
 

jerryat

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Don't even think about using solvents and the like!! Aside from the potentially deadly fumes, it is an extremely slow an ineffectual way of doing it.

I replaced the entire internal linings on my Fulmar a couple of years ago and removed the old glue relatively quickly and painlessly by using a a wire cup brush in a 3" angle grinder. Several other Forumites have also used this method. It only requires a light pressure on the hull to completely remove every trace of the old foam/glue and prepare an excellent surface for the new stuff.

It's FAR quicker than any other method and only requires (at least I strongly advise!) covering up of the floors to prevent the old glue being trampled in. I just vacuumed the stuff up as I went along.

Some here may advise using a brass wire brush, and fair enough if it worked for them, but I tried both steel and brass and found the former far more effective.

Be careful to use a good pair of googles (the odd wire will be thrown off the cup) and ventilate the boat well.

As a guide, once the windows and loads of other fittings had been removed on my project, the removal of the old linings and glue took just over two days at (circa) 8 hours a day.

You wouldn't have a hope in hell of doing it that fast using solvents! Have a word with Hawke House Marine in Gosport for all the glues and stuff to replace the lining.
 

MIKE_MCKIE

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Fully agree, we did the same using a steel wire cup brush & it came off fine. Helluva mess, and needed fully hooded boily, facemask & gogs, but ended up with virtually new surface to put the new lining onto. This was on 30 year old boat, with allegedly original lining. We did mask off the doorway twixt forecabin & the rest of the boat to keep the cr*p in one place, and just entered via the forehatch. The worst bit was gluing the new lining on using the Hawke House 2 part glue. It worked fine but trying to manouver 8' long bits of very sticky lining around in the forecabin needs someone with the physical charateristics of an octopus! However it looks excellent now, just hope it lasts another 30 years.
 

Blueboatman

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I would do a test patch onto what is left -after all it is the foam and not the glue/grp joint that has usually failed with age.
New glue should stick to the old glue very well,just scrape any bumpy bits off.
When laminating and using these contact adhesives in my boat projects I would set up a cool air fan sitting on the forehatch-this draws fume laden air out and ensures that you yourself are breathing a fresh supply of air drawn naturally through the boat from the main cabin.
 

captncruise

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Last year we did our forward cabin. Used petrol to remove glue and then wiped well with methylated spirit to get rid of oily residue. As we were in the tropics we were advised to use a two pot contact glue. This is very toxic so we used positve pressure masks. Moved to a caravan park for a couple of days to allow fumes to clear.
Looks great. The original lining was used as a pattern for the new. It was in several sections. Our boat is 37 years old so it really needed doing.
We used a material that had foam backing and it is much easier then useing foam and then fabric as well.
 

Sea Devil

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I did my prout 33 last year - getting the stuff off was easiest done with the 'special' wire brushes supplied by Hawke House Marine .. They were not cheap. I wore an all over suit with a quality mask and goggles.. Actually the work was not that difficult but did seem to go through a lot of the wire pads. I found the pads on a smallish angle grinder were much better than on an electric drill.

After you have hoovered it all clean the rest is just a matter of getting a bit high on the glue and enjoying one of the most horrid jobs to do in boating....
 

Talbot

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I used a brass cup wire brush on an angle grinder, and this removed the old glue without a problem other than the meass to clear up, but the old dyson did a great job.
 

martcouz

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I did this awful job on my Westerly Discus three years ago; in the end it's simply a lot of hard work , but the result is well worth it. The great incentive for me each time I was feeling defeated was to take a look at the estimate for the same task from a well-know yard on the east coast...... £18K ! I've kept it as a souvenir.
 

wanderlust

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Having completly replaced the headlining on 2 boats I would go with the wire brush on the angle grinder every time. Use the wire brush with the bristles that point outwards as they effectively self clean. You need to get suited up with overalls and gloves as you will be removing a small amount of fibreglass. This approach will leave you with a very clean hull for good adhesion. It is fast and doesnt use a solvent but it is dusty.
 

VicS

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I found that power driven wire brushes tended to soften the old glue and spread it about so I removed what could be scraped off or removed by a hand held wire brush but eventually decided that what would not come off with a reasonable amount of effort could safely be left.

When you fit the new lining, or if you use any solvents to clean of the old adhesive, make sure wear an "Organic vapours" mask in addition to ensuring good ventillation. My 3M mask came from Hawke House They also supplied all my materials and useful hints and tips leaflet.
 

aidancoughlan

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I'm also in the process of doing the Headlining (on my Westerly Merlin). I've used a "face-off" disk recommended by Hawke house on an angle grinder (available also for electric drill). It's a hard plastic mesh rather than wire brush - I've since bought pretty much identical replacements a bit cheaper from Halfords - described as a 'Paint/rust remover'.

A messy job, I've finished removing the old stuff... will be getting high next weekend. BTW...Has anybody fitted one of the Hawke House one-piece westerly forecabin kits ? It's one piece, cut & sewn specifically for the model. What will happen if I stick it in the wrong place, can I move it again ?
 
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