Very Pistol - licence needed?

[petery]

A letter in November's Yachting Monthly was quite clear in saying that sec 13(1) of the Firearms Act 1968 permits you to keep a firearm ' on board ship as part of the equipment of the ship'.

.. yet a friend has just had a letter from the local police threatening court action if he does not immediately take his weapon (sic) - a very pistol - to an arms dealer for safe keeping.

..done a search on this forum and Google for more info with no luck. The 1968 Act isn't on line and the clause doesn't seem to have been repealed in later acts.

Can anyone confirm that no licence is needed as long as it stays on board.

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[tome]

I used to have a Verey pistol and a firearms license (issued FOC). Provided it stayed on board a license wasn't required, but how do you get it to and fro? I think the license was also required to buy cartridges but might be wrong.

My pistol got nicked (1988) and there was a real hullabaloo, imagine it would be even more serious these days.


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[Robin]

Things may have changed, or at least attitudes hardened even more, since I handed in our flare launcher which came into the 'needing a Firearms Certificate' category. Firearms requirements obliged you to keep it in a locked steel cabinet when not in use, not under the chart table! At the time I bought it local (then inland) plod did not understand at all, and what I had didn't even LOOK like a gun. When we moved to the coast local plod here at least knew what a flare launcher was and accepted that it needed to be ready for use, but then said it should be locked up when ashore. The certificate also meant there were regular (usually unannounced) visits to my home to check the 'weapon', which of course wasn't there..... Renewal of the certificate also required countersignature by some dignitary like a magistrate, serving officer in the forces, MP etc., all in all constant hassle.

In the end I gave in and surrendered the 'gun' to the local Police Station, together with the Firearm Certificate. That was another saga too.......

The answer (pre Dunblane rules) is YES you need a Firearms Certificate even if kept on board. It sounds as if your friend's local plod may come into the 'inland plonker' category too.

If we ever go off long distance I will probably buy a proper flare gun when out of the UK (France , USA) and throw it overboard when/if we return.

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[l'escargot]

Go to page 29 of this document, "Firearms Law - Guidance to the Police 2002":

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/docs/policeguide.pdf>http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/docs/policeguide.pdf</A>

Which states

Ship and hovercraft equipment
6.41 No certificate is necessary to authorise
the possession of firearms and ammunition
on board ship as part of the ship’s
equipment (section 13(1)(a) of the 1968
Act). (A certificate is, however, required to
acquire.) Under section 13(1)(c) of the 1968
Act a police officer may issue a permit (form
115) authorising the removal of a firearm to
which section 1 of the 1968 Act applies (but
not ammunition) or a shot gun, to or from a
ship for any purpose specified in the permit.
Although there is no legal definition of what
constitutes a “ship”, in the absence of a
Court ruling this effectively means a vessel
designed to be ocean-going rather than one
for travel on inland waterways.

I doubt whether you could successfully argue that the average yacht is a ship for these purposes, a court would need to decide and I would guess they would rule in favour of the police.



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[Robin]

So..... I have an ocean going yacht (as certified by RCD), I could therefore buy said Verey pistol in France and so long as I kept it on board would be within the UK law, even back here????

Maybe I could also buy me a rifle/shotgun for blasting pot markers??? :0)





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[iangrant]

I would say a license would be needed - trouble is it gets more complicated. Not sure you'd even get one for a "pistol".

I would talk to the local firearms officer and explain. They are normally really helpful. (as long as you don't have a criminal record for robbing banks!!)

Ian

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[l'escargot]

No, you need an ocean going "ship" according to their definition. You could try sticking a funnel on top.

Under current firearm laws they would need some convincing, it is probably easier just to get a firearms certificate.

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[Robin]

Getting (or even renewing) a Firearms Certificate is not easy believe me, even if it is FOC as a safety/search & rescue device. That's why I surrendered ours in the end, life's too short and TB, GB, PWCs and pot markers all too tempting targets. Of course if I was a REAL villain I guesss I could pick a pistol up down the pub....

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[ianwright]

Theory and Practice

If you want a Very flare pistol, and why not, then get one. You will need a FAC to buy or acquire one and it's shells.
The good news is you don't need to pay a fee as long as you don't add any other more lethal weaponry.
If you go ahead you might like to have the cert marked to allow you to keep twice as many shells as it will let you buy at any one time.
I have 5 red and 5 white that I can buy but I can hold 20.
If you apply, just answer sensibly any questions the officer asks you and you will have no problem… and your yacht IS a ship as far as the legislation is concerned. (best to be registered at least SSR)

IanW


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[Robin]

Re: Theory and Practice

As you say 'Theory and Practice'. Sometimes you find knowledgeable plod and sometimes you don't, Peter's friend has found one of the latter! In our case, a flare launcher, the ammuntion was in magazines holding either 8 red shells or 8 white shells, moulded into a plastic octangular holder. I was told that '8 was too many to want to buy at one time, I could only buy 5 maximum'. Head banging on walls is not my favourite pastime!

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[Gunfleet]

Re: Theory and Practice

Just make a written complaint to the officer in charge of the police station citing 'excess of authority' in the officer who told you you can't hold eight flares/shells. They will soon become reasonable.

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[BrendanS]

related question asked on MoBoChat last week. I posted a response which contained a very clear parliamentary answer on the legality of flare guns

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=mby&Number=420559&Search=true&Forum=mby&Words=flares&Match=Or&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=1month&Main=420543>See here</A>

There is absolutely no requirement for a licence to keep a flare gun on board. You would however need a licence to purchase a flare gun, or to purchase flares. Unless that is you took your boat abroad and bought them there.

You need a licence to take the flare gun ashore.
The licence is free, and should be relatively easy to obtain



<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by kimhollamby on 30/10/2003 10:51 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Robin]

Re: Theory and Practice

And add my name to the top of the wanted motorist list and the bottom of the visit after burglary list?

I did eventually get the cartridges I wanted after several calls/letters and sending a piccy of the gizmo concerned, but later surrendered the FC and flare launcher as each renewal, albeit FOC, brought more hassle and in any event replacement cartridges were no longer available. Surrendering them to my local Station was fun too, they had no idea what to do and didn't want to take the 'weapon' - I said well, YOU don't want it and yet apparently don't want me to have it, well it's all yours now, bye!

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[Goby]

As the Firework season is upon us, we should all be reminded that using a Red Flare as a firework is a no no. You could be charged with discharging a firearm in public.

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[BrendanS]

Re: >> using a Red Flare as a firework is a no no.You could be charged with discharging a firearm in public.<

Interesting! I thought it was breach of the Distress Signals and Prevention of Collisions regulations. Nothing to do with discharging firearms in public, unless you can direct me to the correct legislation?

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