Vendee Globe 2024, Brits

[John_Silver]

No signs of either, Sam D or Boris, on AIS. So, either both still well offshore, or transmitters down.



If ‘nosing in’ to ‘see how bad it is,’ their real issue is that they would be committed, by the time they get to the Continental Shelf. Which could be a surf zone……

With the next system advancing, toward them, I don’t envy them their choices.



Local vlogger Aida, gives an idea of conditions, off Les Sables’ breakwater.

EDIT: Race Control now (13,30 UTC 28.1.25) giving Wednesday 29.1.25 afternoon ETA's for both Sam D & Boris.

 

[John_Silver]

Sam D & Boris continuing to stand in, on the 14.00 sched. (Set to wave height, in the sceeenshot). Both making 12 knots. With 350-400nm to Les Sables. Looks like the plan is to maintain course and speed. Which would bring them to the finish, in line with the Race Control ETA's ^

 

[John_Silver]

Word from Boris, about to gybe onto starboard (and his broken port foil)…..

Look at that sea-state!…… and the camera always ‘flattens’ the waves….

Same for Sam D (presumably)

 

[John_Silver]

Away from the Biscay storms, the action is hotting up in the daggerboard fleet:

Conrad (2007 VPLP-Verdier) has sailed a strong Atlantic. He leads, the archimedeans. As well as 7 foilers and, erstwhile number 1, Benjamin Ferre (2011 VPLP-Verdier). On paper at least. Benjamin is out to the west, more or less level with Conrad. Perhaps closer to the incoming breeze, but further from the finish line…..

Meanwhile, Le Roi Jean (2023 David Raison) is making back the places lost, to his J2 vicissitudes. Seeking to regain his crown. On what may be his final VendeeGlobe.

 

[dunedin]

…

Look at that sea-state!…… and the camera always ‘flattens’ the waves….

Same for Sam D (presumably)

It also shows the benefits of speed in such waves - moving fast reduces massively the number of waves that hit from astern, and reduces the impact forces. A slow long keeled boat would be getting badly pasted in that.

 

[Supertramp]

It also shows the benefits of speed in such waves - moving fast reduces massively the number of waves that hit from astern, and reduced the impact forces. A slow long keeled boat would be getting badly pasted in that.

Agree about the speed and the boat is impressively stable.

Any slower, in-the-water rather than on-the-water boat would suffer more rolling, risk of broaching and hits from crests. Not sure a long keeled boat is going to be any worse than other keel designs, and perhaps better than some.

It's interesting to see how these latest monohull designs have surpassed multihulls in many ways. A triumph of material technologies and associated engineering combined with new expertise in the sailors.

 

[dunedin]

Agree about the speed and the boat is impressively stable.

Any slower, in-the-water rather than on-the-water boat would suffer more rolling, risk of broaching and hits from crests. Not sure a long keeled boat is going to be any worse than other keel designs, and perhaps better than some.

It's interesting to see how these latest monohull designs have surpassed multihulls in many ways. A triumph of material technologies and associated engineering combined with new expertise in the sailors.

I think there is now some plausible evidence to suggest that a boat that can slide sideways is less likely to get capsized in bad waves - hence daggerboards seem to cause more capsizes on catamarans (ones without have proven much safer and less prone to capsize than most originally expected in ocean crossings), and from the various ocean events I am increasingly of the view that long keels may have a similar issue on monohulls in extreme conditions (though I know this is a controversial view).

 

[ridgy]

I think there is now some plausible evidence to suggest that a boat that can slide sideways is less likely to get capsized in bad waves - hence daggerboards seem to cause more capsizes on catamarans (ones without have proven much safer and less prone to capsize than most originally expected in ocean crossings), and from the various ocean events I am increasingly of the view that long keels may have a similar issue on monohulls in extreme conditions (though I know this is a controversial view).

As I understand it, as a budding multi hull owner, is that standard practice is that dagger boards are only lowered to windward such that if a cat starts to tip then it can start to slide as soon as the windward hull starts to lift and the further it lifts the less dagger board is present and slides more.

 

[John_Silver]

Jean Le Cam up the mast again (at the age of 65). Rig vicissitudes not over, after all. Benjamin Ferre back at the top of the archimedean rankings. Conrad is slowed. Full breeze should reach him later.

'Show and tell,' of the mast fitting, which keeps failing (across the fleet). Merci Jean!

 

[John_Silver]

Different routing strategies, for Sam D & Boris, in the final yards.

Boris on the rhumb line, ‘straight through the middle.’ Sam D skirting the system. By the look of things.

Both making 12kts. Boris in the 30 minute tracker update zone. Sam D could be there by the 10.00 sched….

 

[John_Silver]

Big seas for Sam D

ETA TBC!

 

[John_Silver]

Sam ‘scow-bow’ Manuard, on Andi’s ‘Live’ today. 13.30 UTC.

 

[John_Silver]

Boris, about to cross the shelf….”expecting the sea state to grow.” Itching to “put a bit more sail up.” But, “I just don’t want to rip the foil off”…….”57 knots is intense!”….”mainly it’s 35 to 40kts”……. Cue wild grin!

ETA 22.00…..or midnight……or……

 

[John_Silver]

Sam D, in AIS range

 

[John_Silver]

Sam D, via Aida. “It’s not over ‘til it’s over”

Thanking her well wishers, thinking of her sponsors. Just gybed north. Pursued by squalls. Looking cheery….

 

[Supertramp]

I think there is now some plausible evidence to suggest that a boat that can slide sideways is less likely to get capsized in bad waves - hence daggerboards seem to cause more capsizes on catamarans (ones without have proven much safer and less prone to capsize than most originally expected in ocean crossings), and from the various ocean events I am increasingly of the view that long keels may have a similar issue on monohulls in extreme conditions (though I know this is a controversial view

I agree with your reasoning - I know some older long keel designs were pitchpoled and that twin keelers could trip over the leeward keel. Very difficult to get comparable information between designs based on infrequent one off incidents.

It would be interesting to understand how these foiling/daggerboard boats deal with being caught out by exceptional seas - they clearly cope, and well.

 

[John_Silver]

I agree with your reasoning - I know some older long keel designs were pitchpoled and that twin keelers could trip over the leeward keel. Very difficult to get comparable information between designs based on infrequent one off incidents.

It would be interesting to understand how these foiling/daggerboard boats deal with being caught out by exceptional seas - they clearly cope, and well.

Don't know the theory.......as you suggest, the 'proof of the pudding is in the eating'......BUT here's some drone footage, which may give some clues.

They aren’t ‘exceptional seas,’ for the Big South…..BUT this is Boris' IMOCA, during the Ocean Race. A few takeoffs and landings in there, as food for thought......

"Look at the swell," says Will Harris. "We're doing 28kts here," says Boris. "Sending it in the Southern Ocean,”says Rosie. What Antoine (the drone pilot) says is unrepeatable here.

 

[dunedin]

I agree with your reasoning - I know some older long keel designs were pitchpoled and that twin keelers could trip over the leeward keel. Very difficult to get comparable information between designs based on infrequent one off incidents.

It would be interesting to understand how these foiling/daggerboard boats deal with being caught out by exceptional seas - they clearly cope, and well.

I think the Open 60s have a number of Southern Ocean defence strategies
1) Going so fast they can either ride in front of a huge storm in the flatter water (as the winner did) or divert to avoid the worst
2) Again going sufficiently fast downwind that reduces massively the number and impact of waves (clearly doesn’t work upwind)
3) Twin rudders and amazing autopilots that keep the boat in control at speed
and if all else fails
4) As the foils are so thin chord, if caught going slow in a massive beam on wave, the flat dish should slide sideways much easier than a longer keel boat
Of course, no boat is invincible - but these seem to be as robust and resilient as current technology permits.

Good comments from Boris Herman today on how his boat seemed to simply sail on unperturbed on autopilot in big and confused seas in the Bay of Biscay - he suggested his boat was handling the confused seas much better than a large ship would.

 

[John_Silver]

Boris is back! At close to low water. Next high water 04.00. At least the wind has eased, for his wait.



100nm to go, for Sam D…..

 

[ridgy]

Sam ‘scow-bow’ Manuard, on Andi’s ‘Live’ today. 13.30 UTC.

A tough interview, hardly an engaging guest.