Sea Change
Well-Known Member
And what happens if you can't get it up to spec?
It's not like a car which must be legally fit to put on the road.
VAT situation after returning to the UK after a 4 year circumnavigation
- Thread starter scr0che
- Start date
It's not like a car which must be legally fit to put on the road.
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
They ticked the 'returning' box, and left a voicemail with the CG, who never got back to them. And that was it.
It's been at least a year now and I'm think they've stopped worrying about it.
The Q
Well-Known Member
If you been sailing round the world in it, then it is your property, moving back to the UK, therefore there's no vat or import duties on it anyway if you continue to own it for 5 years..
That's what happend to my boat I built in Saudi. I'm still sailing it after 24 years..
That's what happend to my boat I built in Saudi. I'm still sailing it after 24 years..
st599
Well-Known Member
Then it's not legal to use in the UK and the import wouldn't be allowed.
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
So, if using the boat privately, what actually happens to you?
Tranona
Well-Known Member
I don't know for obvious reasons what exactly happened to your friends, but from what you say they may have broken the law. They may be "returning" but the boat was not. So if they follow the guidance in the link I posted earlier they would be required to declare that they were importing a boat. This is what the guidance says to comply with the law www.gov.uk/guidance/sailing-a-pleasure-craft-that-is-arriving-in-the-uk#declaring-a-pleasure-craft-that-youre-importing They and the boat are not eligible for RGR because they did not own the boat in the UK before it left. They may of course be classed as "Returning residents" which is the other relief, but this requires them to go through a separate process for all their assets.
There is nothing new about this law as it has been in place since 1993 from the Lisbon Treaty when the UK was in the EU and carried over almost verbatim after we left the EU. Equally the requirement to comply with the RCD/RGR has been in place since 1997. These requirements are very restrictive and effectively mean that importing existing boats from outside is practically and economically prohibitive. There have though been some examples where it is possible - best known is Tom Cunliffe's import of a US sourced Mason 43 which he wrote up in the mags. However it was only possible because he had all the technical data to show it met the RCD stability and construction requirements, plus it had a nearly new engine with EU CE certification. This is done through a "Post Construction Assessment" Other examples mostly pre 2013 were US built sports boats where the builders had gained CE marks because they sold into the EU and the low price of used examples in the US were cheap enough to ship to the EU, pay VAT and do minor mods to meet the RCD spec (helped by the low value of the $). However this trade stopped when the latest RCD meant the US spec boat would not meet the stability requirements and the builders effectively abandoned the EU market.
There are undoubtedly boats that have been imported illegally either because the "importer" was ignorant or deliberately avoided declaring the boat, or officials failed to apply the law. Here in Poole because of our links with the Channel Islands, both with ferries and by sea (only 70 miles away). non VAT paid CI boats were not uncommon in the past. I knew of 2 examples, both now moved on and lost in the mists of time. Prior to leaving the EU there were no dedicated resources to managing the movement of pleasure boats in and out of the UK because most were within the EU. However in the 1990s there were many examples of boats being impounded for either VAT or RCD infringements before the trade stopped.
To answer your other question - the law applies to both private imports as well as trade. It is written with terminology that is around "putting into service" not just being sold. The ultimate penalties for breaches are severe in both cases VAT or Certification as both are criminal offences and range from enforcement orders to impounding to fines and prison sentences. Rare that any of the more severe are used although there have been one or two examples involving non compliant boats being involved in accidents resulting in injuries and deaths
There have been several threads here in the last couple of years exploring how the law is being applied, particularly since the decision to align the UKRGR with the RCD (shades of Starmer's "dynamic alignment approach") because it seems unclear how the certification rules are being applied to private imports, but that may be because the "trade" has effectively stopped. If that is so then it also means that VAT cases will have stopped for older boats that do not meet the 2017 RCD.
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
It's possible that they got confused about what to put on the forms. They were trying to do it all properly.
Given the whole thing relies on boat owners self reporting, what are the conviction rates like?
Skik op reis
Active Member
As Chatham was for Dutch ships?? ( the guy asked with a wink of his eye).
Serious: is she still there? I remember visiting the Belfast with my wife in our teenage days. It must have been 1988 I think.
Sandydog2
Well-Known Member
There’s a YouTube channel which I have watched on and off for a few years now. They left the UK to sail around the world. I’m not mentioning names because search engines index this forum and I don’t want to drop them in it.
They bought an old catamaran last year and sold the boat they set out in. They fully intend to sail the second boat back home. They are adamant only VAT will be due on import.
I’m interested to see what will happen as they certainly aren’t planning to sneak in. They plan to document the whole journey and to be escorted in by their supporters. Their channel isn’t huge but they have about 40K followers.
Maybe I’ve overlooked some loophole. Possibly they no longer count as UK residents so can bring it in as a visiting boat for two years.
They bought an old catamaran last year and sold the boat they set out in. They fully intend to sail the second boat back home. They are adamant only VAT will be due on import.
I’m interested to see what will happen as they certainly aren’t planning to sneak in. They plan to document the whole journey and to be escorted in by their supporters. Their channel isn’t huge but they have about 40K followers.
Maybe I’ve overlooked some loophole. Possibly they no longer count as UK residents so can bring it in as a visiting boat for two years.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Impossible to say whether there are convictions. as you say self reporting potentially leaves gaps, but before Brexit it was even more lax - for example that unit in Portsmouth to deal with imports did not exist and the equivalent of the current guidance notes just quoted the EU law. The old reporting system was largely ignored for the reasons I suggested.
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
Well the resounding silence from anybody who has fallen foul of the law, or even anybody who knows someone who did, or even just some secondhand rumour, suggests the risk of getting caught out is pretty low.
As I said, I know one person who bought an old low value boat outside of the UK and sailed it back, and they are happily unbothered by the whole thing.
I'm struggling to see why I would stick my head above the parapet if I was in the same situation.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
There are just 58 members on line, most of whom I guess have no experience or interest in the subject. Hardly a sound basis for drawing the conclusion you have. The law is absolutely cleaar and the guidance tells you exactly what is required and what you can and cannot do. I suspect the low or non existent number of prosecutions or convictions is the result of sensible law abiding people finding out what is involved and choosing not to buy a boat outside the UK and try and import it.
Not sure what you mean by your last sentence. If it means that what you know about the law is enough for you not to try to import a boat then good choice. If you mean that because you have never heard of anybody being caught you are going to try and deliberately not declare the boat on arrival I am sure everybody (all 58 plus the thousands of bots on line) would like to know how you get on.
BTW the OP 9who has not come back) asked what he has to do when he returns from his circumnavigation. On the basis of what he says he just has to follow the guidance and he can bring his boat in without any restrictions. He will be one among many who have been doing the same thing over the last 40+ years.
Not sure what you mean by your last sentence. If it means that what you know about the law is enough for you not to try to import a boat then good choice. If you mean that because you have never heard of anybody being caught you are going to try and deliberately not declare the boat on arrival I am sure everybody (all 58 plus the thousands of bots on line) would like to know how you get on.
BTW the OP 9who has not come back) asked what he has to do when he returns from his circumnavigation. On the basis of what he says he just has to follow the guidance and he can bring his boat in without any restrictions. He will be one among many who have been doing the same thing over the last 40+ years.
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
I agree that 58 is not a large sample. But if I extend this to everybody I know both on and off line, I have yet to hear of a single example of somebody being refused entry, or having to pay a fine, or being threatened with imprisonment etc.
I have no doubt that what you say is true and the legal position is fairly clear. But that doesn't mean it's actually enforced. I'm starting to suspect that it would only become an issue if the boat was sold and the buyer asked the right questions.
I have no doubt that what you say is true and the legal position is fairly clear. But that doesn't mean it's actually enforced. I'm starting to suspect that it would only become an issue if the boat was sold and the buyer asked the right questions.
