VAT Petition - UK Boats in the EU

In my circumstances, my concern is I am not the one that exported my current boat from UK/EU into Spain/EU. Let me explain:

I bought my boat in August 2019 from a UK owner but the boat was berthed in Spain. It is UK VAT paid with VAT shown on the invoice. I subsequently obtained a T2L designed to establish the status of Union goods for my boat. The completed T2L (C88 Status form) is in my name and was duly validated by HMRC, providing evidence that the boat was of EU origin and thus establishes that it had the status of Union Goods.

Now, as I understand it, normally to get RGR a boat must be returned no later than 3 years after it was exported, in order to get this relief. However, goods in the EU at the end of the transition period (after 31 December 2020, which as Hurricane has alluded to, we made certain our boat(s) were duly photographed and documented in Spain on that day), to allow importers extra time to return goods to Great Britain from the EU, a special extension to the existing grace period has been agreed for goods transported from the UK which were in the EU on 31 December 2020 will be eligible for relief even if the normal 3-year time limit for re-importation has expired. To claim this relief, you must re-import these items back to Great Britain by 30 June 2022 and fulfil all the other conditions for RGR.

As said, I was not the owner when the boat was originally exported, prior to 31 December 2020, but as I understand it, I do not have to give the ‘actual date’ (unknown to me) that the boat was exported from the UK, I only need to show that the boat was in the UK at some point before 31 December 2020. I assume the original purchase invoice might prove that, albeit not in my name of course.

So my question is, would in my circumstances I be liable to pay VAT/Import duties if I returned my boat to the UK, in or before June 2022, complete with the above documentation? I fear the answer may be yes, if I was not the one that originally moved it thorough UK/EU waters to Spain/EU then.

My UK Bill of Sale makes no reference to where the boat was lying at the time of the sale, so how can the powers that be check this? I can just tick the box (no idea if there is a box) saying I bought the boat in the UK, VAT paid, and am now returning it from a trip to Spain.

Of course, I would not wish to do anything illegal, but I do feel it unfair that I legitimately bought a UK/EU VAT paid status boat in Spain and I may now be liable to pay VAT again. As I have said before, I intend to keep the boat in Spain and will sell her there later, but I would like the option to return to UK if I wanted to, until June 2022, without paying penalties (yep that’s how I see them, others may legitimately argue they are not of course).
 
John your in the same situation as I and many more everything point to as we not (HMRC says the person ) who exported the boat we not entitled to RGR and have to pay vat on the valve of the boat even tno like us the vat was paided to the UK government.
Now here the thing , the UK was part of the EU at the time and as we all know goods where free to be moved around as long as vat was paid some where , so why are they now using the word export if not tax us a second time.?
 
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Anything to be aware off , many of us are SSR registered and each year to renew there more rules, how long will it be before MCA want prove the boat is UK vat and prove where the boat was Dec 2020 ,
 
just to go one stage further, the sailing organisation some of here pay good money to are more interested in chasing a foreign government to change a transit log rule that makes very litte different to many financial then sort out with our own government a problem that will effect a lot of people financial.
 
DavidJ said:
I like the approach.
Is there any “rule of thumb“ time of how long a Q flag needs to be up before you can assume no inspection.
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HMRC Notice 8: sailing your pleasure craft to and from the UK
Do I need to fly the yellow ‘Q’ flag?
If you are arriving from outside the UK (and this includes the Channel Islands) you must fly the ‘Q’ flag, where it can readily be seen, as soon as you enter UK waters (the 12 mile limit). Do not take down the flag until you have finished reporting to the customs authorities. Failure to comply will make you liable to a penalty. If you are arriving from an EU member state into Northern Ireland, there is no need to fly the ‘Q’ flag.
 
John100156 said:
In my circumstances, my concern is I am not the one that exported my current boat from UK/EU into Spain/EU. Let me explain:

I bought my boat in August 2019 from a UK owner but the boat was berthed in Spain. It is UK VAT paid with VAT shown on the invoice. I subsequently obtained a T2L designed to establish the status of Union goods for my boat. The completed T2L (C88 Status form) is in my name and was duly validated by HMRC, providing evidence that the boat was of EU origin and thus establishes that it had the status of Union Goods.

Now, as I understand it, normally to get RGR a boat must be returned no later than 3 years after it was exported, in order to get this relief. However, goods in the EU at the end of the transition period (after 31 December 2020, which as Hurricane has alluded to, we made certain our boat(s) were duly photographed and documented in Spain on that day), to allow importers extra time to return goods to Great Britain from the EU, a special extension to the existing grace period has been agreed for goods transported from the UK which were in the EU on 31 December 2020 will be eligible for relief even if the normal 3-year time limit for re-importation has expired. To claim this relief, you must re-import these items back to Great Britain by 30 June 2022 and fulfil all the other conditions for RGR.

As said, I was not the owner when the boat was originally exported, prior to 31 December 2020, but as I understand it, I do not have to give the ‘actual date’ (unknown to me) that the boat was exported from the UK, I only need to show that the boat was in the UK at some point before 31 December 2020. I assume the original purchase invoice might prove that, albeit not in my name of course.

So my question is, would in my circumstances I be liable to pay VAT/Import duties if I returned my boat to the UK, in or before June 2022, complete with the above documentation? I fear the answer may be yes, if I was not the one that originally moved it thorough UK/EU waters to Spain/EU then.

My UK Bill of Sale makes no reference to where the boat was lying at the time of the sale, so how can the powers that be check this? I can just tick the box (no idea if there is a box) saying I bought the boat in the UK, VAT paid, and am now returning it from a trip to Spain.

Of course, I would not wish to do anything illegal, but I do feel it unfair that I legitimately bought a UK/EU VAT paid status boat in Spain and I may now be liable to pay VAT again. As I have said before, I intend to keep the boat in Spain and will sell her there later, but I would like the option to return to UK if I wanted to, until June 2022, without paying penalties (yep that’s how I see them, others may legitimately argue they are not of course).
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I always like to think why these decisions are made and the effect on other circumstances.

For example, imagine that you had bought your EU VAT paid boat in Algeria.
You would have to pay VAT to re-import it back into the EU because you weren't the original exporter.
This has always been the case even before Brexit.

Now apply that concept to the UK (after Brexit) - the EU not now being within the UK VAT tax laws.
I think you can then see where all this is coming from.
 
Just Googled and noted Algeria Algeria was included in the European Union's European Neighbourhood Policy (ENP) which aimed at bringing the EU and its 'neighbours' closer. UK was a full member of the EU when I purchased the boat, but I expect you may also quote other countries..

Still seems grossly unfair to me, given that VAT was duly paid on this boat in accordance with the prevailing tax laws and rates at the time of purchase and no formal agreements in place. So I still see this as punitive due to subsequent tax laws changing due to Brexit. I think an extended 3 year opportunity to bring my boat back without incurring what I describe as penalties would have been fairer, not that I intend to!!
 
Hurricane said:
I always like to think why these decisions are made and the effect on other circumstances.

For example, imagine that you had bought your EU VAT paid boat in Algeria.
You would have to pay VAT to re-import it back into the EU because you weren't the original exporter.
This has always been the case even before Brexit.

Now apply that concept to the UK (after Brexit) - the EU not now being within the UK VAT tax laws.
I think you can then see where all this is coming from.
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Many hundreds cruisers brought boats back into the EU and the UK after doing extensive cruisering without problem , that all to cha ge now .
 
Hurricane said:
There seems to be a petition gathering numbers.
So I'm just spreading the word.
Probably worth getting as many as possible to sign it.
May do some good.
Please sign it anyway - here Petition: UK Registered and owned yachts and boats in EU should keep their VAT paid status
Only takes a few seconds to sign - then remember to confirm the email link sent to your email address.
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Trying to get an understanding of this, So basically what uk registered boat owners in the e u after the end of 2020, are after is to be able to sell there boats in the u k and eu without incurring additional vat , if not then bring there boats back by June 2022, as they have astablished they were in the eu after the cut of point , they could sell in Europe as vat paid, then buy a vat paid boat back in the U.K. Or am I missing something
 
dj43 said:
Trying to get an understanding of this, So basically what uk registered boat owners in the e u after the end of 2020, are after is to be able to sell there boats in the u k and eu without incurring additional vat , if not then bring there boats back by June 2022, as they have astablished they were in the eu after the cut of point , they could sell in Europe as vat paid, then buy a vat paid boat back in the U.K. Or am I missing something
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No we not after being able to sell our boats .
What we after is as long as we can get our boats back ( no matter if we was the original owners or if we brought them in the EU while the UK was part of the EU ) back into the UK within HMRC time limit to be able to do so without incurring vat a second time.
Especially as the vat was paided in the UK in the first place.
 
Yep - the HMRC have already had the VAT paid on the full value of my boat in the UK. If I now bring her back without 'penalty' and sell her back in the UK, I would not charge VAT as a private seller.

If I then choose to buy a new boat in the UK VAT free and take it to Spain, I would expect to abide by the tax laws prevailing at that time. Is that unreasonable?
 
dj43 said:
Trying to get an understanding of this, So basically what uk registered boat owners in the e u after the end of 2020, are after is to be able to sell there boats in the u k and eu without incurring additional vat , if not then bring there boats back by June 2022, as they have astablished they were in the eu after the cut of point , they could sell in Europe as vat paid, then buy a vat paid boat back in the U.K. Or am I missing something
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As sailaboutvic and John says, it isn't about selling the boats.
The action of bringing a boat (even your own VAT paid boat) back to the UK from the EU can incur another payment of VAT
 
Yes that's it in essence, there is no sale or transaction at that point and even if I sell my boat after bringing it back, it was UK VAT paid in full so I would expect to receive the full sale price.

Or at least be given a few years grace say 3 or 5 years to bring her back without PENALTY!

It just doesn't seem to me, to be particularly well thought out, a bit rushed.

From what I have read the CA (I'm not a member) seem to be active in pursuing all this, I must say though that I am very disappointed indeed with the RYA's performance, the Webinar I attended was IMHO pathetic. Sorry in advance if that offends anyone! I am not certain if I will renew next year as a consequence.
 
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Hurricane said:
As sailaboutvic and John says, it isn't about selling the boats.
The action of bringing a boat (even your own VAT paid boat) back to the UK from the EU can incur another payment of VAT
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It is that I think is unfair, when the boat was first purchased under the EU rules at the time whether the VAT was paid in the UK or in A N Other EU country it should still have freedom to circulate within those countries, EU and UK, now.
 
Ok with you, yes an alternative system allowing you three years to return before losing uk vat status, as is at present if you take your boat out of the uk ,to say channel isles, might be more favourable still cannot see you can have both
 
John100156 said:
Yes that's it in essence, there is no sale or transaction at that point and even if I sell my boat after bringing it back, it was UK VAT paid in full so I would expect to receive the full sale price.

Or at least be given a few years grace say 3 or 5 years to bring her back without PENALTY!

It just doesn't seem to me, to be particularly well thought out, a bit rushed.

From what I have read the CA (I'm not a member) seem to be active in pursuing all this, I must say though that I am very disappointed indeed with the RYA's performance, the Webinar I attended was IMHO pathetic. Sorry in advance if that offends anyone! I am not certain if I will renew next year as a consequence.
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I agree totally unfair , but consider this point : if you are sailing your boat or in transit to Northern Ireland ( part of uk ) you have no vat Liability if from an EU country & even do not have to fly a Q flag.
Then sail back from uk to uk .
 
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