VAT Petition - UK Boats in the EU

No she not still wearing them high heels and mini skirt , haha ,
She always looked like a 21 years old with her long blond hair , and that photo of her sitting on the rock ( not saying any more , I think you know which one I mean ) she very proud of it .
Nice couple
 
sailaboutvic said:
So here we go .
UK vat boat do have 18 months TA in the EU
EU flag boats which are EU VAT paid have TA in the UK
But if you have a boat which is ssr register that would mean the ower has to be resident in the UK and as a UK resident you can't have a boat in the UK without being UK vat paid .
Only way around it is if your boat was registered under an EU flag
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What flag the boat has is totally irrelevant. It is the owner's residency status that triggers vat obligation.
 
sailaboutvic said:
Mike although I understand what your saying , we not all rich gin Palace owners .
As for bringing the boat back before Jan the 1st I sure your aware it wasn't possible for many with covid , of cause that as been extended now , but it dont help the likes of me who has a boat where the VAT was paided in the UK and I brought it on the understanding that at the time if I wanted to bring it back to the UK it was vat paid , now HMRC have moved the goal post and for me to return I would have to pay again .
2 things here , 1 I personlly won't be bring it back because as a bluewater cruising boat its value is more as a EU vat boat and 2 I didnt vote to leave the EU .
You may ask then if I'm not plain to bring the boat back why I'm for signing this , its really simple , its going to effect every boat british owner in the UK and the EU one way or another
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Sorry I rather regret referring to rich gin palace owners because most of us do struggle to keep our boats on the water. However I doubt we'd get any sympathy from the joe public on that one

But I just dont see it as HMRC moving the goalposts. We, as a nation, have moved the goalposts and HMRC are just responding to that changed situation. In fact they have already given a concession by applying Returned Goods Relief to anyone re-importing goods from the EU upto 3 yrs after the goods have been exported so its not as if they havent tried to help. The trouble is that if they extend RGR for boats then they will have to do it for every type of goods and thats going to be very costly both in terms of increased admin costs and lost VAT

I probably shouldnt say this but I bet its going to be rather too easy to get away without paying VAT on a reimported boat or imported boat anyway providing the boat doesnt enter the UK on a back of a truck or ship in which case it will enter through a recognised port of entry and be assessed for VAT. Coast hop around the French coast, switch off the AIS if you've got it, bring the boat across the Channel on its own bottom and park it in a quiet marina. Hoist the Q flag, take a pic to prove you hoisted it, take it down a few hours later and bugger off home. Who's going to be watching you? Do HMRC have look outs stationed on every headland and in every marina? Nope they've got far more pressing things to do
 
Deleted User said:
Sorry I rather regret referring to rich gin palace owners because most of us do struggle to keep our boats on the water. However I doubt we'd get any sympathy from the joe public on that one

But I just dont see it as HMRC moving the goalposts. We, as a nation, have moved the goalposts and HMRC are just responding to that changed situation. In fact they have already given a concession by applying Returned Goods Relief to anyone re-importing goods from the EU upto 3 yrs after the goods have been exported so its not as if they havent tried to help. The trouble is that if they extend RGR for boats then they will have to do it for every type of goods and thats going to be very costly both in terms of increased admin costs and lost VAT

I probably shouldnt say this but I bet its going to be rather too easy to get away without paying VAT on a reimported boat or imported boat anyway providing the boat doesnt enter the UK on a back of a truck or ship in which case it will enter through a recognised port of entry and be assessed for VAT. Coast hop around the French coast, switch off the AIS if you've got it, bring the boat across the Channel on its own bottom and park it in a quiet marina. Hoist the Q flag, take a pic to prove you hoisted it, take it down a few hours later and bugger off home. Who's going to be watching you? Do HMRC have look outs stationed on every headland and in every marina? Nope they've got far more pressing things to do
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Just sail to Northern Ireland , stay few nights and return .
 
Hurricane said:
I think that statement is completely wrong.
It is the boat that has the VAT status.
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Correct. But it has nothing to do with the boat registration. You do not qualify for RGR unless you are a resident. You do not qualify for TA if you are a resident.
If a boat is sold/ transferred between an EU resident and UK resident, the VAT status will change regardless of the boat's registration.
 
Ningaloo said:
What flag the boat has is totally irrelevant. It is the owner's residency status that triggers vat obligation.
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If you read my other posting #29 you see I had already said that.
I was referring to aliccatt and he was going to get Belgium resident,
so he would need to register a boat under another flag so he could use it in the UK without getting caught for not having paid UK vat boat.
although as I said at the time legally if he became resident of Belgium he couldn't get SSR registered .
 
sailaboutvic said:
If you read my other posting #29 you see I had already said that.
I was referring to aliccatt and he was going to get Belgium resident,
so he would need to register a boat under another flag so he could use it in the UK without getting caught for not having paid UK vat boat.
although as I said at the time legally if he became resident of Belgium he couldn't get SSR registered .
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Still confused.
If a Belgian resident has an EU VAT paid boat they can use TA to use it in UK, regardless of the flag. If the Belgian resident has a UK VAT paid boat in the UK, EU VAT will be due as soon as it is taken into EU. All this ignores the 3 year limits and the Brexit transition which may skew things.
And the Belgian resident can legally take Part 1 registration and nothing changes. VAT is triggered by the owner's residency, not the vessel's country of registration.
 
Ningaloo said:
Still confused.
If a Belgian resident has an EU VAT paid boat they can use TA to use it in UK, regardless of the flag. If the Belgian resident has a UK VAT paid boat in the UK, EU VAT will be due as soon as it is taken into EU. All this ignores the 3 year limits and the Brexit transition which may skew things.
And the Belgian resident can legally take Part 1 registration and nothing changes. VAT is triggered by the owner's residency, not the vessel's country of registration.
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Im not confused at all .
Yea all you said is correct .
But brexit as made it a bit more complicated,
So it's not all to do with owner residence,
you can be a resident in one country and the boat vat status of another as long as the boats isn't in your residential country .
The residence / VAT only come into it if your using the boat in the country you live in ,
in which case the boat as to be vat paid in that country .
Edit
To make it clearer , I'm british my residence country is the UK but my boat is EU vat status as its kept in the EU
 
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It took a while for me to get the Admiral/Purser on to a small boat in a situation that she felt comfortable, which happened last summer, she loved the boat and helming it. My wife gets seasick on the ferry between Newcastle and Amsterdam so I had not really tried to get her on the water, but even in the chop that was on the lakes last summer she was fine and enjoyed it, so the she has now agreed that a nice smallish cruiser of about 10m is on the cards.

I sold on my 7.5m Dory day boat not long after we met as my wife got seasick and where we were going to live there was no real access to the water and what was here had lots of rules about it, now my wife and I are retired and can devote a bit more time to getting back on the water.
This was the reasoning behind my questions, especially as we will still have a home in Scotland too. It just confirms what I was thinking too.

Was reading on the CA website about the clarification/Update from HMRC: Update to HMRC Brexit Rules | CA (theca.org.uk)
  • Somewhat absurdly, the new HMRC rules clarify that relief from UK VAT is available for yachts purchased in the EU that were exported from the EU before 31 December 2020 and which are returned to the UK before 30 June 2022. This means that yachts purchased in the EU that left the EU on a cruise outside the EU (e.g. to the Caribbean) before 31 December 2020 can now be returned to the UK before 30 June 2022 without being subject to UK VAT.
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Another way you could bring your boat back to the UK without the VAT event.
 
Isn’t it a simple case of whenever goods cross a border (UK to EU or EU to UK) then VAT is due. Doesn’t matter who sends the goods, who owns the goods or who is receiving the goods. (All three could be the same person)
Various concessions exist but it doesn’t change the concept.
Also the fact that VAT has been paid somewhere/sometime before makes no difference.
I think the confusion comes when you mix the concessions up with the basic concept.
 
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A boat is just like any other good.
It has nothing to do with its registration or its ownership.
If the boat (like any other good) was in the EU at the 31st December 2020, it is deemed to be an EU good thus not requiring and further EU VAT unless it is moved out of the EU for more than 3 years or was sold to another person whilst it was outside the EU.
If it does move out of the EU for more than 3 years (or is sold outside the EU) and if the boat returns to the EU it will need to be re-imported thus triggering a VAT payment.
This is no different than before Brexit.
The only difference after Brexit is that the UK is not in the EU so moving a boat from the EU to the UK for more than 3 years, will trigger another EU VAT payment.

This is for a VAT paid boat in the EU.
I believe that the converse is true for a VAT boat in the UK.

But lets get away from this flag of registration and ownership issue.
Neither of those affect the VAT status of the boat.
 
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Following on from my last post.

As a UK resident, I can own a "good" (a boat) in the EU.
If that boat is already EU VAT paid, no further VAT is required and I can use it freely within the EU.
Additionally, I am not a resident within the EU so if I bought a new boat, I could move it into the EU and use the TA rules to avoid paying VAT for 18 months.
And the reset the TA rules every 18 months.
This is a benefit to UK residents of the UK now being outside the EU.
TA rules only apply to non EU residents - so a UK resident couldn't do this before Brexit.
 
Hurricane said:
Following on from my last post.

As a UK resident, I can own a "good" (a boat) in the EU.
If that boat is already EU VAT paid, no further VAT is required and I can use it freely within the EU.
Additionally, I am not a resident within the EU so if I bought a new boat, I could move it into the EU and use the TA rules to avoid paying VAT for 18 months.
And the reset the TA rules every 18 months.
This is a benefit to UK residents of the UK now being outside the EU.
TA rules only apply to non EU residents - so a UK resident couldn't do this before Brexit.
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You might get caught out
extract from European Commision ref
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/sites/taxation/files/rules_for_private_boats-faq_en.pdf
It is possible they may require the provision of some kind of security or guarantee to cover the payment of the customs duties and VAT that become due if the boat does not leave the EU.
 
We seen to have gone off topic ,
Part of the petition was so brits who brought a boat in the EU when the UK was part of the EU that was VAT paid in the UK are allowed to bring the boat back to the UK within the given time limit and not have to pay vat a second time .
HMRC woodng is exporting of good, while the UK was in the EU ,
there wasn't any exporting of good ,
 
DavidJ said:
You might get caught out
extract from European Commision ref
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/sites/taxation/files/rules_for_private_boats-faq_en.pdf
It is possible they may require the provision of some kind of security or guarantee to cover the payment of the customs duties and VAT that become due if the boat does not leave the EU.
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I think thats unlikely.
Don't forget TA has been going on for a long time.
I have a friend who has just bought a new boat and is exporting it from the UK thus not paying UK VAT.
He then intends using TA for the first 18 months and then, probably, taking it to Turkey and basing the boat there.
So I will keep an eye on his progress but I suspect he will be fine.
 
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