VAT not paid - VAT claim

sailaboutvic said:
Paul as I said , they stop all that , now you have to pay by bank card , it as to be in the name and adress of the registered person . So if you now use a friends address as soon as the card don't match up with that address they won't issue the SSR. Plus it can be class as making a false statement.
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That must be a recent change then Vic.

I don't think one would be making false statements, providing the applicant was actually eligible. If someone lived aboard and was travelling around they would usually have some form of mailing address. A friends address could be used perfectly legitimately. Nothing to stop you using the friends address for the bank, i suppose.
 
PaulRainbow said:
That must be a recent change then Vic.

I don't think one would be making false statements, providing the applicant was actually eligible. If someone lived aboard and was travelling around they would usually have some form of mailing address. A friends address could be used perfectly legitimately. Nothing to stop you using the friends address for the bank, i suppose.
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I think it's been on going for a year or two , it's to stop non British registered under SSR , ,maybe it's a good thing the MED is littered with red dusters .
It only came to light when I sold my last boat the owners , she English he from the US and they live in Italy ,
I did suggest they reg at there daughter address in the UK but because their daughter has her married name they where Unable to do it , ended up reg it under part 1 , not easy and took some time .
 
On the topic of the SSR, the register tightened the qualification criteria for using the SSR about 18 months - 2 years ago. Before you could be 'normally resident' in UK, which they defined as paying UK taxes. They changed the definition to requiring you to spend more than 183 days per year in the country. They don't check if you're on the electoral roll but if your card details don't match the address details for registration application, they'll refuse the application. You would then need to produce further evidence (no idea what!) to challenge that refusal.
I know the Greek PP asked me for a bill of sale as part of the bundle of paperwork for the new DEKPA last year so the idea of using a friends name and address to register the boat is fraught with difficulties.... (Yes, I know others didn't get asked for that but that's the way Greek regulations work....).
 
PaulRainbow said:
That must be a recent change then Vic.

I don't think one would be making false statements, providing the applicant was actually eligible. If someone lived aboard and was travelling around they would usually have some form of mailing address. A friends address could be used perfectly legitimately. Nothing to stop you using the friends address for the bank, i suppose.
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But by definition if he is travelling around he does not qualify under the new definitions. Therein lies his problem.

The SSR was introduced specifically for UK based boats and owners who paid short visits abroad to show the state of registration. It was never intended for rootless people wandering around the Med, for which Part 1 is the recommended register to use.

The recent tightening of eligibility and monitoring of applications just reflects the changing world and the abuse that has occurred.
 
duncan99210 said:
On the topic of the SSR, the register tightened the qualification criteria for using the SSR about 18 months - 2 years ago. Before you could be 'normally resident' in UK, which they defined as paying UK taxes. They changed the definition to requiring you to spend more than 183 days per year in the country. They don't check if you're on the electoral roll but if your card details don't match the address details for registration application, they'll refuse the application. You would then need to produce further evidence (no idea what!) to challenge that refusal.
I know the Greek PP asked me for a bill of sale as part of the bundle of paperwork for the new DEKPA last year so the idea of using a friends name and address to register the boat is fraught with difficulties.... (Yes, I know others didn't get asked for that but that's the way Greek regulations work....).
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You spot on Duncan , as far as how the Greek PP work , well all of us who have had experience dealing with them know very well, expect the unexpected . Then think yourself lucky if it doesn't happen .
 
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Tranona said:
But by definition if he is travelling around he does not qualify under the new definitions. Therein lies his problem.
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I wasn't referring to anyone specific, but i meant travelling around the UK.

A person could, for many reasons, be living on a boat, mostly, or even exclusively, in the UK, but be traveling around the country. They won't have a permanent address ans such people normally have a mailing address. A good solution for a mailing address is to use a close friend or family member. No legal reason they could not use that address for their bank account, SSR, etc etc. In those circumstances they would be having everything going to the one address and i can't see how that causes a problem. If any official body were to ask any questions, just tell them you live on the boat and the address is your mailing address, which would be the truth and perfectly legitimate.
 
PaulRainbow said:
I wasn't referring to anyone specific, but i meant travelling around the UK.

A person could, for many reasons, be living on a boat, mostly, or even exclusively, in the UK, but be traveling around the country. They won't have a permanent address ans such people normally have a mailing address. A good solution for a mailing address is to use a close friend or family member. No legal reason they could not use that address for their bank account, SSR, etc etc. In those circumstances they would be having everything going to the one address and i can't see how that causes a problem. If any official body were to ask any questions, just tell them you live on the boat and the address is your mailing address, which would be the truth and perfectly legitimate.
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That may well be true, but is not the OPs situation. Boat dwellers in the UK often have problems with officialdom because they don't fit the "norm" but invariably find ways round the problems or are able to explain to officials. In the case of the SSR the issue is about residence in the UK and the "traps" of address, bank account etc are indicators of lack of eligibility, not criteria. Not difficult to show you are in the UK for 183 days living on a boat in Brighton marina and working (for example) than located in Greece with no direct connection with the UK, or wandering around in a motor home in Europe making a living from youtube blogs!
 
Tranona said:
That may well be true, but is not the OPs situation. Boat dwellers in the UK often have problems with officialdom because they don't fit the "norm" but invariably find ways round the problems or are able to explain to officials. In the case of the SSR the issue is about residence in the UK and the "traps" of address, bank account etc are indicators of lack of eligibility, not criteria. Not difficult to show you are in the UK for 183 days living on a boat in Brighton marina and working (for example) than located in Greece with no direct connection with the UK, or wandering around in a motor home in Europe making a living from youtube blogs!
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As i said, i wasn't talking about anyone in particular, but the OP doesn't say he'll be living in Greece, just buying the boat there. He also talks of registering for VAT in the UK.
 
PaulRainbow said:
As i said, i wasn't talking about anyone in particular, but the OP doesn't say he'll be living in Greece, just buying the boat there. He also talks of registering for VAT in the UK.
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Did not say he was going to live in Greece, but used two generic examples that could sort of fit from what little real information he gives.

No idea why he wants to register for VAT in an attempt to reclaim VAT or somehow deal with the lack of VAT paperwork. Suspect, however that if his business is big enough to mean he has to register for VAT he would have difficulty in doing it in the UK. Anyway the way he describes suggests VAT for his business is not relevant. One of the vagaries of the gig economy, but most one man service type businesses are far to small to register.
 
sailaboutvic said:
Paul as I said , they stop all that , now you have to pay by bank card , it as to be in the name and adress of the registered person . So if you now use a friends address as soon as the card don't match up with that address they won't issue the SSR. Plus it can be class as making a false statement.
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If the friend is happy with it, the bank account could be registered at that address as well ... in these days of online banking it doesn't really matter.
 
JumbleDuck said:
If the friend is happy with it, the bank account could be registered at that address as well ... in these days of online banking it doesn't really matter.
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JD not sure when the last time you opened a bank account in the UK , but there so many hoop , my partner who's Dutch was gob smack , the words where " British banks much have to much money "
Let me think , ph yea a bill in your name ,at that address , a driving lic in that address, a council or HRMC bill at that address .
The days have gone when you sat in a office with the manager , told him your problem and he sorted it .
 
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sailaboutvic said:
JD not sure when the last time you opened a bank account in the UK , but there so many hoop , my partner who's Dutch was gob smack , the words where " British banks much have to much money "
Let me think , ph yea a bill in your name ,at that address , a driving lic in that address, a council or HRMC bill at that address .
The days have gone when you sat in a office with the manager , told him your problem and he sorted it .
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The last account I opened was my German one, and it was ludicrously easy.As you say - a twenty minute chat with the manager and all was done. However, I was assuming that the OP already has a UK account ... I don't think a change of address is particularly hard.
 
Tranona said:
Did not say he was going to live in Greece, but used two generic examples that could sort of fit from what little real information he gives.

No idea why he wants to register for VAT in an attempt to reclaim VAT or somehow deal with the lack of VAT paperwork. Suspect, however that if his business is big enough to mean he has to register for VAT he would have difficulty in doing it in the UK. Anyway the way he describes suggests VAT for his business is not relevant. One of the vagaries of the gig economy, but most one man service type businesses are far to small to register.
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It is possible to voluntarily register if you are below the threshold. There can be many reasons for doing so but two could be:-

Lots of standard rated inputs and zero rated outputs (farmers)
A small business dealing almost exclusively with large businesses (who don't care if your outputs are standard rated as they can claim them back).

Its not always as black and white as it looks.
 
Balbas said:
It is possible to voluntarily register if you are below the threshold. There can be many reasons for doing so but two could be:-

Lots of standard rated inputs and zero rated outputs (farmers)
A small business dealing almost exclusively with large businesses (who don't care if your outputs are standard rated as they can claim them back).

Its not always as black and white as it looks.
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I know as I have done exactly that with my consultancy business because of the high value of some of my inputs.

However suggest it does not help for the OP as he described in his initial post.
 
Whohaa! Wow, thanks for all the great pointers and conversation. Sorry the delay, I was out on the water. Did a grueling sail across False Bay in South Africa, it is only about 20nm but boy was it an interesting one. First day we started before dawn with no wind to speak of, so had to motor out past the headland where we caught a little breeze coming off a front. We finally made it across the bay and into the harbor in about 10hrs. The next day we sailed back, beating into the wind all the ways, got into the harbor with 45-50kts trying to keep us out. Had to wiggle off the sand bank at the entrance whilst trying not to get blown onto the harbor wall. Certainly good experience, but fed the fish on more than one occasion :sour:.

On to the topic of the original post. I was looking at registering for VAT as the owner can't find proof of payment, he has had the boat for 15 years and is not willing to come down anymore on price. Though the comments here have me thinking it will not be a problem so I have agreed to his price and am waiting to hear back from the broker.
I left the UK for Sweden about 6 years ago stayed there about 6 months and left to travel which as I said I have been doing for the last 5 years or so, not spending longer than 6 months in any country. I am a UK and South African citizen. All this time I have maintained a postal address in the UK and my bank account and card is registered here so that shouldn't be a problem. As an a side, if anyone out there needs a UK bank account that doesn't require the normal bureaucracy to open, have a look at https://www.starlingbank.com/referral/?token=3S9YN6WL I have been using them a little over a year now and they are fantastic. I can't recommend them enough over the money hungry high street banks. No charge or foreign transaction fees on card usage abroad :)

Having been a traveler for awhile now, I am used to being made to feel like a 3rd rate citizen. If one does not have a home address and telephone number, it seems they are not to be accepted into society. It amazes me that this is still the case in this digital age. The fact is we have reached the stage where borders do not make sense, they are just fictitious lines drawn in the sand by men who didn't know what they were doing many years ago.

As pointed out in another post http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?502571-To-Southerly-or-not-to-Southerly, the boat is in Greece and I am going to be heading back to the UK, I would like to sail, but am a little concerned about timing as the little one is expected in Jan and I am still in SA trying to finalize the purchase of the boat. I am not sure how comfortable I will feel doing the crossings with only a month or two of experience on the boat, will have to see.

Once again thank you all for the valuable information. I am taken aback at how much more welcoming this forum is than the american equivalents!
 
If the owner "insists" that vat has been paid then he should be able to offer proof that really is the case :if he cannot do that I would offer the asking price,LESS the amount of vat that you may be asked to pay at some time in the future. You may also find it more difficult to sell later on if you choose to ( and don`tforget to get a survey done ).
 
chrisgee said:
If the owner "insists" that vat has been paid then he should be able to offer proof that really is the case :if he cannot do that I would offer the asking price,LESS the amount of vat that you may be asked to pay at some time in the future. You may also find it more difficult to sell later on if you choose to ( and don`tforget to get a survey done ).
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Why on earth would he accept that? when there is zero chance (if it is an EU boat) that there will be any demand for VAT. There is no mechanism to collect VAT from private individuals as buying and selling a boat privately is NOT a chargeable event. It would be different if the boat had spent time outside the EU in which case it would be necessary to check that VAT had been accounted for on entry, or the boat was eligible for one of the exemptions.

Literally thousands of boats change hands each year without evidence off VAT payment at prices that reflect market value.

It is unwise to spread "rumours" that are simply not true.
 
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