Nosealegsyet
Well-Known Member
Its a Searay 230 sunsport, I paid 68,000 euro for her, she was registered in 2019 I think
Vat Issues bring boat back from Spain.
- Thread starter Nosealegsyet
- Start date
Its a Searay 230 sunsport, I paid 68,000 euro for her, she was registered in 2019 I think
DavidJ
Well-Known Member
I found this which may be useful.
Just when you think it’s all gone bad, it gets worse.
https://www.gbr420.uk/assets/uploads/Travelling to Europe after Brexit.pdf
I edit
The first two bullet points seem to contradict.
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st599
Well-Known Member
I use Carnets quite a lot for work. To get one you need to provide a Chamber of Commerce with quite a lot of information (purchase value, amortised value, location of manufacture, serial number...) for everything being transported and lodge a bond (Europe is typically 40% value). You then need Customs stamps exiting UK, arriving in Customs area (in this case EU), exiting Customs area and returning to UK. At each point the Officers usually want to see a few of the items. You then go back to the CoC and get your bond back. In the 420 dinghy example, that's probably not a lot (hull, spars, sails, rudder, centreboard) but for anything bigger, that's a lot of info.
Cars can be temporarily imported for up to 6 months, vessels for 18 months - but there was a question about whether a boat on a trailer counted under the rules or wheter it was part of your personal allowance.
Because the UK chose to exit a Customs Union without a Free Trade Agreement. The EU and the UK are then duty bound by the WTO to apply the same rules as they would to any other country without an FTA. The EU VAT rules have been in place since the early 90s and the UK have copied the rules for ease.
What the UK could have done was decide to accept EU RCD compliance as proof of compliance with the new UKCA RCR rules (which are a carbon copy of RCD at the moment), but they haven't, so if you import your boat after the cutoff date, then you won't have an RCR compliant boat - only an issue when you come to sell I think.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
No, thats the point of the TA regs.
Its all about goods and not specifically boats.
The idea of TA is that non-Europeans going on holiday with their (say) caravans) etc can do so freely.
The TA rules allow for 18 months in the EU so, technically, you can go on holiday for 18 months.
That said, you, yourself as a non-European, are limited in the EU to 90 days in any rolling 180 days.
Back to the OP's question.
I am afraid that if he brings his boat back to the EU, the boat will attract another VAT payment.
Think of it as importing the boat into the UK.
Probably best to get some tax advice as to how he could mitigate the tax (boat value etc) but I suspect that UK customs would be the place that he gets clobbered.
As said, there was a lot in the news about this at the time he bought his boat.
Also, as said, it is a shameful situation but, in fact, this issue has been, technically, in place long before Brexit.
For example, if you took your boat out of the EU for more than 3 years or bought a boat outside the EU, it would have attracted VAT on its return to the EU.
Now apply the same logic - just replace the EU with the UK in my sentence above and the same rules apply.
The only thing that has changed is that the UK is now not part of the EU.
Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
So here is what might be a little scary idea. As it looks as though it is a trailable boat. If the OP Just hooked it up, Brought it back to the UK and as boats are not registered in any real official way, Plopped it in and used it who would ever know. Might be an issue if and when he sold it but by then things might have changed and he might want to keep it any way. 13,000 plus euro is a lot of cash so worth trying to not have to pay it especially as it was paid once so perhaps the moral issues are not too worrying.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
If you want a boat to use in the UK then it is probably better to buy one here, VAT paid. Importing your boat from Spain will incur transport costs and payment of VAT at 20% on arrival plus if it is after June next year it will need certification to the latest UK standards.
The rules on importation are here www.gov.uk/government/publications/notice-8-sailing-your-pleasure-craft-to-and-from-the-uk It does not cover certification of the boat which is a different process and best to get advice from the RYA on the subject.
Probably is a good idea to sell the boat in Spain, but it is for you to do the sums to work out if it is cheaper to bring the boat here or sell and buy here. Good boats are selling quickly both in Spain and here, but you may well find your choice in the UK limited.
DavidJ
Well-Known Member
We used to boat tow a lot to the continent a couple of decades ago. We got stopped just once by UK customs and our documentation gone through. Agree, scary idea.
DavidJ
Well-Known Member
John100156
Well-Known Member
Useful table from the CA:
Mr Googler
Well-Known Member
from my understanding….a UK resident with a UK registered boat can take their boat out of the country for up to 18 months without losing VAT status.
Bring it back to the UK (or is it just out of the EUfor 24 hours then start again.
Ive often thought about
Bring it back to the UK (or is it just out of the EUfor 24 hours then start again.
Ive often thought about
That table is wrong for Isle of Man. IOM is inside VAT customs union
John100156
Well-Known Member
That doesn't surprise me, its from the Cruising Association (CA) website but RYA not much better, albeit I have not checked with them recently!
What would be of interest to me, is if someone has been through the process of paying VAT 'again' when importing a UK VAT Paid boat back from EU to UK and wants to share. How rigorous was the process? Whom valued the import, with no actual recent survey/sale....?
petem
Well-Known Member
I don't believe country of registration is relevant.
Mr Googler
Well-Known Member
I was looking at buying a boat that was in the uk but had no proof of vat after being purchased by the seller in Guernsey.
Spoke to hrmc yachtline who said fill out a form…send in the bill of sale with the price I paid and pay 20%. Made me think…you could do a bill of sale for any old amount within reason. No survey valuation was mentioned
petem
Well-Known Member
My
Many people, including myself, just put £1 and other considerations on the BoS. There's no obligation to put the price paid.
Mr Googler
Well-Known Member
Me too…..20p vat might not go down well though ??
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
As I understand it, and petem seems to agree, the registration of the boat is completely irrelevant.
It is the goods status of the boat that counts i.e. where it is in free circulation.
But I think you are trying to say that if you own a boat in the UK and that you are a UK resident, you can take your boat into the EU for a maximum of 18 months.
These are the TA rules and you are correct.
And I agree, all you have to do at the end of the 18 months is to take it out of the EU (even for as little as a day) and you can then go back into the EU for another 18 months.
Actually, I thought that John's CA chart was pretty good.
In fact, I have a lot of time for the CA - not so much time for the RYA though.
DavidJ
Well-Known Member
From the gov website
Can I claim relief from customs duty and VAT?
Subject to certain conditions vessels that are temporarily imported for private use may be eligible for relief from duty and VAT. This relief is called Temporary Admission.
The vessel must be:
- registered outside the UK in the name of a person established outside the UK. If it is not registered it must belong to someone who has their normal place of residence outside the UK
- be used by a non-UK resident (there are limited exceptions where use can be made by a UK resident, these are explained in the table in paragraph 5.4)
westernman
Well-Known Member
If you do import a boat into the UK, make it look as dirty, used, worn and untidy as possible to reduce the valuation as far as reasonably possible.
Do not tidy it up after sailing it to the UK until the valuation has been done and you have the VAT receipt safely in your pocket.
My boat was built in Canada, and as a brand new boat was immediately sailed across the Atlantic to the UK and imported.
The valuation was less than a quarter of what it cost to build in Canada ;-)
petem
Well-Known Member
Thanks - I like this.
petem
Well-Known Member
Thanks David, I stand corrected.
It's once a vessel (like yours and mine) is VAT paid in the EU, and stays in the EU, the registration becomes rather irrelevant for VAT purposes I believe.