Varnishing gone wrong - help please.

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Ex-SolentBoy

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I am varnishing with a Ronseal product and it seems to be going wrong.

The wooden surface (beech) is perfectly dry and sound and was rubbed down to bare wood then wiped off with white spirit.
I then applied a primer coat which was thinned a little with white spirit as per the instructions.
The primer coat went on beautifully, but does not seem to want to go hard even after nearly a week.
The wood is in our house and has probably been at about 17 degrees C most of the week, with some ventilation.
I went to rub it down today for the first unprimed coat and it is still sticky.

Is it OK to apply the next coat? I am loathe to spend time putting another coat on if I am just going to have to strip it all off.

Thanks
 
Ex-SolentBoy said:
I am varnishing with a Ronseal product and it seems to be going wrong.

The wooden surface (beech) is perfectly dry and sound and was rubbed down to bare wood then wiped off with white spirit.
I then applied a primer coat which was thinned a little with white spirit as per the instructions.
The primer coat went on beautifully, but does not seem to want to go hard even after nearly a week.
The wood is in our house and has probably been at about 17 degrees C most of the week, with some ventilation.
I went to rub it down today for the first unprimed coat and it is still sticky.

Is it OK to apply the next coat? I am loathe to spend time putting another coat on if I am just going to have to strip it all off.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Hi,

I am not an expert BUT, why did you apply a primer?

I did our cockpit table. I sanded it down to bare wood. Cleaned with white spirit and the next day applied four coats of varnish= job done.

Perhaps you should remove the primer?

No doubts the experts will be along shortly

Good luck

Peter
 
rivonia said:
Hi,

I am not an expert BUT, why did you apply a primer?

I did our cockpit table. I sanded it down to bare wood. Cleaned with white spirit and the next day applied four coats of varnish= job done.

Perhaps you should remove the primer?

No doubts the experts will be along shortly

Good luck

Peter
Click to expand...

Bad explanation on my part. By primer I simply meant a thinned first coat. Same stuff.
 
What did you thin it with? Perhaps this was incompatible. I should take it off and try again without the thinned coat.

Having checked here http://d1foit7yghv20f.cloudfront.net/assets/documents/tin/Ultra Tough Clear_Varnish_BoP.pdf it would seem that white spirit is the solvent but the tech details make no mention of thinning the first coat and do say that drying time may be extended if applied over wood dye which I think is a spirit based product so perhaps you should give it another few days before taking action.
 
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No good applying another coat onto wet primer. Will only drag.

Did you properly stir the varnish before mixing your primer coat ?
 
I know the batch is OK as we used it, albeit without thinning, on some other stuff a few weeks ago.

The tin clearly says thin with white spirit. Perhaps the white spirit was off.

Being sticky I can no longer sand it.

I guess we will just leave it a few days more and if it doesn't dry it will be out with the Nitromors. Yuk.

Thanks everyone.
 
Ghostlymoron has said more or less what i was going to say.

Was it allowed to dry thoroughly after wiping with white spirit ??

There is no mention of thinning first coat with white spirit on the back of the tin so where did this instruction come from ?


Definitely don't apply a second coat until the first is properly dry.
 
VicS said:
Ghostlymoron has said more or less what i was going to say.

Was it allowed to dry thoroughly after wiping with white spirit ??

There is no mention of thinning first coat with white spirit on the back of the tin so where did this instruction come from ?


Definitely don't apply a second coat until the first is properly dry.
Click to expand...
Lots of the good quality varnishes suggest thinning 50% first coat then 25% second etc so I guess the OP was trying to follow accepted practice.

I agree with you though. You can't varnish over tacky undried varnish. If the varnish work outside is inside somewhere warm as the OP describes then it should have dried by now.
 
john_morris_uk said:
Lots of the good quality varnishes suggest thinning 50% first coat then 25% second etc so I guess the OP was trying to follow accepted practice.

I agree with you though. You can't varnish over tacky undried varnish. If the varnish work outside is inside somewhere warm as the OP describes then it should have dried by now.
Click to expand...

Yes i know that is a common practice. It is something I have done myself although I notice that my very old tin of Ronseal Satincoat makes no such suggestion.

It may be because the solvent mix in the varnish is something not compatible with white spirit.
The MSDS usually gives an indication of the solvents used but so far I have not found an MSDS for this product
 
It's a huge leap to think that Ronseal products are 'varnishes' in the old fashioned meaning of the word. They may be 'clear coatings', but to assume they are a traditional varnish formulation with white spirit as the solvent is a little naive.

Even marine brands of 'varnish' have a range of suitable thinners depending on their formulation.

My experience with any of Ronseal product is that they are all made exclusively from the sperm of the devil. I can't find anywhere if that is soluble in white spirit.

In their effort to make them 'easy to use', low odour, 'greener', more DIY friendly, etc, etc, they in fact all (in my experience) become much harder to use. Follow the instructions to the letter, or use something that is more tolerant of improvisation.
 
VicS said:
Yes i know that is a common practice. It is something I have done myself although I notice that my very old tin of Ronseal Satincoat makes no such suggestion.

It may be because the solvent mix in the varnish is something not compatible with white spirit.
The MSDS usually gives an indication of the solvents used but so far I have not found an MSDS for this product
Click to expand...
Possibly they were trying to say that you can clean your brush with white spirit, without suggesting that you can thin the product for its first coat etc. An implied use of 'thinners=white spirit" which has resulted in an unintentional consequence.

Sounds like its going to be a case for the nitromors.
 
Now you mention it, perhaps it was not properly dry before we applied the first coat.

The label has changed a bit on the one I linked to.

On my tin it says "thin 10% with white spirit for first coat on bare wood".
 
Ex-SolentBoy said:
Now you mention it, perhaps it was not properly dry before we applied the first coat.

The label has changed a bit on the one I linked to.

On my tin it says "thin 10% with white spirit for first coat on bare wood".
Click to expand...

If it says thin with white spirit, then having some on the wood after de-dusting wouldn't matter. I think there's a good chance it's of a similar formulation to the Wickes own brand 'varnish' I used on this desk. It took ages to dry and now several weeks later, it feels dry but the computer monitor is still 'stuck' to it every time I come to move it slightly.
 
Another thought - what was it you originally sanded off?
Hopefully not one of these soaky-in garden preservatives or creosote.
You can't "undercoat" with them.
 
I've known this problem with some other varnishes, but it's normally the more traditional types.
Some fresh air and mild UV light is a great help in hardening some varnishes.
So putting outside out of the rain might help.
It might take a few days this time of year.
It could be the humidity is too low in your house.

I had a bit of problem with Ronseal 'diamond hard' varnish, but that is water based. Their helpline is worth a call.

If the dilute varnish has brought some contamination to the surface, try sanding it with wet'n'dry paper using white spirit as a lubricant. I found this worked on some plywood doors where polish has got into the grain of the wood. Use about 120 grade. If it's really sticky, maybe use a nylon scourer and white spirit.

I might also try wiping off with white spirit or IPA (not the beer!), and/or warming it with a hot air gun.
 
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