Vancouver 28 vs 32 handling

An awful lot of money has clearly been spent on that boat - saving whoever buys her years of doing those upgrades themself - and I can see no reason to suspect anything gone wrong as such.

You can always contact the seller to ask why they're selling, etc, plus ask when last survey done, and of course I'd strongly suggest you get your own survey before committing to any purchase.

I've also sent you a PM.
 
Outlander said:
I agree, never sailed a long keeled boat before and after reading many stories online, yes I am a bit worried, especially that I'm planning to sail solo. Although my idea of sailing is that I leave a marina and won't come back for 3-4 weeks.
Sailing for a day or two together with soon-to-be previous owner would always be my requirement when buying a boat.


What do you guys think about this 28? Someone has recently invested lots of money in her, and my suspicious mind thinks that the upgrade went wrong hence why they are now selling :)

https://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/vancouver-28-for-sale/804751

and a nice pdf: Click!
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Well that is a lovely example
It does show how many things can be replaced on any older boat
There are two sayings.

1 Never own a blue boat with teak decks.

2 Always look for the boat that someone else has spent all the money on.

Those are serious replacements, engine and full rig and sails. And more!

I like the 3 foresail set up and everything led aft to the cockpit.

You might do an awful lot worse but it’s always sensible to look at what else your money can buy too. Including ‘ just in case’ playing the devils advocate and at least stepping aboard something from the 3 or 4 mainstream manufacturers .
Google sailing round the UK and you will see and read blogs from people ( including those who post on the this forum) doing it in every kind of boat imaginable.

By the way I’ve owned a blue boat and I’ve owned teak decks. It’s the screw holes you have to mostly look out for, if it is just glued down then better and better 🤞

If you really are going to be off solo cruising for 3 or 4 weeks at a time habitually then that is a pretty serious boat for going to sea and keeping you dry, comfortable, rested, and still sailing or motoring along in a variety of all the vaguaries of weather that the northern hemisphere can throw at you including wind over tide, squally headlands and stubborn prevailing headwinds. As well as all the nice days 😎
But it’s not a beamy, bright party boat and if and when you choose to resell these things will affect who buys and who doesn’t.
But for ease of handling and sailing singlehanded I think it is superb.

Of course this whole thread could be one giant wheeeze to drum up more interest in what is a very nice boat!
Whatever.
 
Blueboatman said:
1 Never own a blue boat with teak decks.
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I get the teak decks thing but what's the deal with blue color?

Blueboatman said:
I like the 3 foresail set up and everything led aft to the cockpit.
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When I saw her on the first photo I have assumed the third foresail must be from another boat in the back :) Genuine question, why would you need 3 foresails, I have never seen such a setup before. Will they not cancel each other...?
 
Coloured gelcoat fades with sunlight over time . And blue fades the most although red and green aren’t sooo much better
The temptation is to polish it with an electric buffer to restore the shine but each time, one is wearing the gelcoat thinner until you can see the ‘print’ or weave of the underlying fibreglass mat in the hull. Eventually boats get painted to restore the looks but then that needs looking after as well without scratching it or chipping it
White gelcoat can be over polished too but you have to look a bit closer or measure it to ascertain what’s left

3 foresails? The outermost will be a light weather one . Surprised to see it permanently rigged like that but maybe it’s for the photo op? Dunno
 
Re headsails, it is a cutter rig so you should have a No1 Yankee for the forestay and maybe also a slightly smaller No2 (which you'd bend on if you were expecting a sustained blow), then you'd have a staysail on the inner forestay, plus perhaps a storm-jib (usually orange) for more extreme conditions. My V27 inner forestay has no furling mechanism - both the stays'l and storm-jib are hanked-on, which I prefer. I also have a cruising chute for light airs, so the complete sail wardrobe including the mains'l is six in total.
 
The boat look fine the only thing that would give male concern would be the teak decks. If you go to look at her look for leaks inside, I am pretty sure the teak would have been screwed and glued so if the deck is letting water in you could be in for an expensive repair, a good surveyor should be able to identify any problem especially if pointed in that direction. If it's in budget and sound you would have a good boat.
A light airs sail (code Zero) which is what you see will help in winds below 12 knots but you won't point very high but at least you will be moving.
 
It does look like a nice enough boat - but also a heck of a lot of money for a small boat nearly 40 years old?

For that cruising brief there must be lots of other candidate boats to consider for a £40k budget. If cruising and living on the hook outside marinas, a slightly bigger boat would be my personal preference - more space for stores, more tankage, and bigger is often easier and more comfortable to sail (certainly up to 35 feet). Definitely compare with something like the 32ft Fulmar referred to on a previous thread before committing, to learn what the alternatives are.

PS Three headsails on furlers is a heck of a lot of windage and weight aloft for a small boat.
 
Outlander said:
Guys,

In my quest for a perfect boat I have found something that would suit me the most which is a Vancouver 28, but I also saw a 32 for a similar price. I only have experience with smaller boats (25-28) and larger ones (45) hence my question: what are the differences in handling very similar boats that are 28f and 32f long? Sailboatdata shows a much bigger displacement (almost 60% more) but it's hard for me to asses the impact of that. How about things like trimming sails or marina parking?
Note that I'll be single handing most of the time.
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Just checked out the 32, blimey it's a big boat, not much like the 28. Biggest difference is that it will seem huge next to the 28 and that is intimidating at close quarters, singlehanded. I see the 32 has got even more beam than a lot of porky modern boats like the Sun Odyssey 32 etc
Long keels have lots of advantages, for example you never have to think "shall I reverse into the berth" you go in forward every time and the test comes when you have to get out. I note both have huge cut outs in the keel and none in the rudder which should help a lot under power. Heavy boats handle very well in poor wind conditions but, in a marina, it is cross tide that is the killer and that affects everyone alike.
Laden, the 32 would probably be over 8 tons so stopping it with your boot is not going to be a useful option.

In the short term I think the 28 would suit but longer term the 32 would be the choice and you might regret not being brave. At sea the bigger boat would give you an armchair ride.

.

.
 
doug748 said:
Long keels have lots of advantages, for example you never have to think "shall I reverse into the berth" you go in forward every time and the test comes when you have to get out
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Doug, I agree with all your observations above - except the old chestnut about all long-keelers in astern.

I have a 95% success rate in manoeuvring my V27 astern in tight marina spaces in all conditions of tide and wind, and am no longer even conscious of 'thinking' about the various component factors - momentum/slowing/bursts, wind strength/direction/windage, tidal rate/eddies, prop-walk, etc - which I've now been doing mostly single-handed for 15yrs.

If I ever got round to up-sizing to a V32 or V34 then it'd take me some time to get used to the significant increase in size and weight, but the mechanics would be just the same.

I do find my V27 bijoux below decks, and upsizing to a bigger sister would make a world of difference to my cruising comfort and passage speeds, however the sheer convenience of her small size - plus the fact that I know every last inch of her! - means that as I get older I'm less inclined to do so.

Re the OP, at 6'3" he's 4" taller than me, so I think he'd struggle with a 27/28! A 32/34 would be much more comfortable both for his height and cruising plans, but in his case (inexperience) I'd suggest he has a few days with an instructor first, and then sail with a crew for his first season until he's developed a proper feel for the boat in a range of conditions and mooring scenarios. (The same advice would apply to any other 30ft plus boat.)
 
After thinking about it although the 28 is a fine boat and will take you anywhere, I look back at why I changed to a 34 and it was simple, passage planning a speed. 4.5 knots was a good average for the 274 but 5.5 to 6 knots for the 34. Of course all dependant on conditions and direction of sail.
Another thing that would influence me is the internal layout, the 274 I had was OK but the bog and forepeak arrangement of the standard 27 and 28 I find off-putting and would much prefer the conventional layout of the 32.
Don't be put off by comments about stowage or tankage, the 27 and 32 have better than most boats of their size.
Subject to depth of pockets and condition go for a 32.

Oh and you can reverse them into a berth once you know what you are doing and what the wind and water are doing, they can be turned in less than 1.5 boat lengths.
 
Outlander said:
I think I kind of decided that I'd like to get a full keel and Vancouvers are reasonable boats from what I've read so far. My longer term goal is to cross oceans but for the first few years will be doing coastal sailing especially West Scotland and Ireland. I prefer not to use marinas daily (there aren't that many anyways) so I like the idea of having bigger fuel/water tanks. Also, my though process is that it's better to buy one boat and stick to it, rather than buy something and resell it a few years later for a loss. Learning everything about one boat also makes more sense to me.
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Thats a sensible approach, but in all the years I have haunted these forums there have been many many times that dreamers / planners focus on an old design long keel, heavy displacement boat that they think will be better suited to crossing oceans. Yet the large numbers of people actually doing the crossings are for the most part in modern fin keel spade rudder designs not least because as human kind move on we discover better ways of doing things. And modern boats are for the most part simply better than old ones just as modern cars are way better than the old morris minor.

I have sailed a Vancouver 28. Its a nice boat but pokey inside and with a lot of tired equipment. Posters dont realise that even things like masts wear out let alone hulls with osmosis etc. My ocean capable cat A 30 footer runs rings round it in sailing ability, is far more spacious and doesnt have the same marina manoeuvre issues. So think carefully before going for an oldie - chopping and changing boats as I have done only costs money.
 
Babylon said:
Doug, I agree with all your observations above - except the old chestnut about all long-keelers in astern.

I have a 95% success rate in manoeuvring my V27 astern in tight marina spaces in all conditions of tide and wind, and am no longer even conscious of 'thinking' about the various component factors - momentum/slowing/bursts, wind strength/direction/windage, tidal rate/eddies, prop-walk, etc - which I've now been doing mostly single-handed for 15yrs.
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Fair enough, I have no direct knowledge of the boats. The only experience I have had is with the usual keyhole cut out and two blade prop which is common on long keel boats and was designed in the era when the peak of our expectations was to slowly come up to a swinging mooring without the engine stopping : -)

.
 
barca nova said:
Thats a sensible approach, but in all the years I have haunted these forums there have been many many times that dreamers / planners focus on an old design long keel, heavy displacement boat that they think will be better suited to crossing oceans. Yet the large numbers of people actually doing the crossings are for the most part in modern fin keel spade rudder designs not least because as human kind move on we discover better ways of doing things. And modern boats are for the most part simply better than old ones just as modern cars are way better than the old morris minor.

I have sailed a Vancouver 28. Its a nice boat but pokey inside and with a lot of tired equipment. Posters dont realise that even things like masts wear out let alone hulls with osmosis etc. My ocean capable cat A 30 footer runs rings round it in sailing ability, is far more spacious and doesnt have the same marina manoeuvre issues. So think carefully before going for an oldie - chopping and changing boats as I have done only costs money.
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It's a matter of priorities.

If you aim was to go to America with maximum self reliance, the minimum of fussing with trim and sails, and the most comfort, the Vancouver 32 is probably " better " than any similar sized and equipped boat designed in the last 40 years.

.
 
Size wise, having had a 28 berthed in front, then a 34, looking from my cockpit it seems like the 6 extra feet have been added to the beam🤣 Obviously not true, but the little 28 was a svelte little thing, the 34 is all grown up. Reflected in space below, of course. However, the owner, in conversation, said he wasn’t quite sure why he bought it, apart from it being a good deal. He’s not planning another solo round the world, and even, (wash his mouth out) admitted that our DF920 would better suit his immediate needs, and be a lot more fun. Mrs C finds his new one pleasing on the eye though, and says he’s more likely to pull, with that extra space, comfort and separate heads.
 
doug748 said:
It's a matter of priorities.

If you aim was to go to America with maximum self reliance, the minimum of fussing with trim and sails, and the most comfort, the Vancouver 32 is probably " better " than any similar sized and equipped boat designed in the last 40 years.

.
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This. I doubt many folk would disagree that more modern light/medium displacement boats have much better accomodation and layouts below, much better cockpit living/sunning, sail much better in light airs etc.
And if any of those are your priority, you should buy one.
But we all have different priorities, hence why boat design is so varied, so if your main priority is an ocean capable seaworthy comfortable (at sea) boat, then stick to your guns.

If money was no object most of us would have a different boat :)
 
I think I've been a very good boy, so far, keeping out of this discussion...

The size difference between a V 28 and the 32 is not just 4', it is considerable. The 32 is about 50% larger, to be precise.

The 32 might be half a knot faster than the 28.

On the displacement debate: light versus heavy. There isn't a hope in hell that a much lighter, contemporary design of a similar length could be loaded to the same extent and still sail (as well).

Neither the V28 nor the V32 are exactly overcrowded with sail. The SA/D ratio is a prime indicator of sail performance. I have sailed a V 27 and would judge her progress as stately.


I am continuously amazed by folk with very strong opinions about long-keeled boats, regardless of the fact that they have obviously never sailed one.
Wetted surface is predominantly an issue at low speed. However, a heavy boat with a reasonable SA/D ratio has an abundance of sail power, particularly in low wind/speed conditions and more than enough to overcome any additional wetted area drag. In fact such a boat will easily and quite regularly outperform a much lighter one with a similar SA/D. Simple physics. Our tub does so quite regularly and a somewhat pimped Westsail 32, super heavy, long keel, commonly known as a "wetsnail 32", won the Trans Pac in very light conditions and against a wide field of more "finny" and lighter types. The following year the same boat placed third.
In practice and in terms of displacement speeds while cruising, there will be little or no noticeable difference. To be sure, I have done many tens of thousands of ocean miles on long keels and other types as well.

On maneuverability. Yes, a short fin is more maneuverable. However, it bears to remember that the fin only generates side force when moving forward through the water. The moment the boat comes to a stop it will be going sideways. This can equally lead to some embarrassing moments in tight corners. A long keel, by comparison, gives you a lot more time to figure out how you just cocked up and how best to get yourself out the mess again.
Some long keels have trouble backing up, some don't. Not all fins back up well either. I had a lifting keel, twin rudder job that was a bit onery. Apparently, some of the new Southerlies too require an attitude better suited to a demolition derby.
We nearly always back our current, long-keel domicile into a berth, partially because the bowsprit represents a hazard to pedestrian traffic and additionally, because the nearly 2 m high bow requires alpine level skills to disembark. No problem. We can also back her down a fairway or out of the marina, if need be and she can be turned on the spot, quite leisurely and preferably to starboard.

At sea the old girl runs like on rails, even in a steep and quartering sea.
In spite of having a waterline length barely over 28' and, more over, being crippled by that long keel, we seem to consistently average 6 kts or better over long distances. Under sail of course.


I'm not in love with this or any other type of keel, but I can appreciate the qualities of our current model and comfortably live with any of the small inconveniences it may incur. I also like the idea that this keel will likely survive a ground impact in any the dogy, out-of-the-way areas we seem to prefer sailing in and that would probably cause a complete write-off for most other models.
 
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