Van de Stadt Trotter/Pandora

[ProDave]

Now let me start by saying I'm not actively looking for a different boat, but at some point we would like something bigger than our Frolic 18

A Van de Stadt Trotter/Pandora is for sale locally to me as a project (basically needs complete interior re fit) and might be available quite cheap, so my initial thoughts was here might be an opportunity to trade up to a 22ft boat at not much cost.

A bit of googling found this site http://pandorasailing.com/?page_id=2 and from there a link to a review

I started to read the review, and frankly it's put me off. Here's some phrases that concerned me:

"For our test sail, we could not have had a better day. Cloudless sky F1 to F2 that gradually picked up to F3"

"relatively low freeboard"

"being slim compared to modern IOR boats.... she was not blessed with a lot of form stability"

"her keel at 960lbs is not heavy... and shaped so the cog is kept low... it worked well once the boat was heeled"

So I'm left with the impression of a boat that's going to be tippy and inclined to heel a lot, even in light winds, and with the low freeboard, you are more likely to get wet. Completely the opposite of one of the reasons we want a bigger boat eventually which is to get something less tippy than our Frolic 18.

Also, talking to the seller, it appears the swing keel is a flat plate that lifts up into a stub keel (unlike our present boat that has an encapulated lead keel that lifts up into a keel box in the cabin). When I mentioned we would want to keep her in a drying harbour, he raised concerns about the keel slot getting jammed up with mud.

So before I completely rule out this boat, is there anyone that can contradict my initial impression, and instead tell me this is a fine and stable boat that would be happy drying out on soft mud twice a day?

 

[Twister_Ken]

A long time ago, a Pandora was the first cruiser I raced. I was in no way capable of being objective back then, but she didn't seem too tippy to me and she kept up with some boats her own size, but no ocean greyhound. Fixed keel version, as far as I recall.

 

[SHUG]

I don't thing that the swing keel Pandora is a patch on the fixed keel version which is a tremendous little boat. I used to race and cruise a fixed keel version and it never let me down. Stable and seaworthy.

 

[johnalison]

There were some Pandoras in the fleet when we raced in the 1970s. Though I never sailed one myself, they were more than a match for larger boats as far as speed goes. Any boat of that size is going to be tender to some degree and I would think that a Pandora was a lot less twitchy to sail than a Sonata.

 

[sarabande]

is it this one ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sailing-Y...ng_Goods_Sailing_Boats_ET&hash=item27c13c5337

 

[ProDave]

is it this one ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sailing-Y...ng_Goods_Sailing_Boats_ET&hash=item27c13c5337

Yes that's the one.

I wasn't going to post the link originally in case we were going to seriously bid for it, and I didn't want too much competition. But now we are pretty much decided not to bother, you can all have a pop at buying her.

The deal breaker was the condition of the trailer. Not fit to tow the boat home and in need of some serious work if it's ever to become road legal and safe. So factor in transport, or hire of another trailer, and a decent outboard motor (none included) and that's £1000 before she's on our drive ready to work on (and that's assuming you can win her for near the starting price)

Then add the major trailer renovations and complete interior re fit, not to mention anything else that might need fixing or replacing, and it's not such a cheap bargain.

One of the reviews, the PBO used boat test on it, usefully compares it to other similar size boats, and of those comparisons, the Hurley 22 is the one that looks so much bigger. Having sailed as crew on a Hurley 22 I was impressed, so that's probably the sort of thing we would be looking for.

It just goes to show length is not everything .

 

[concentrik]

Like one I had..

she was a lovely nippy boat and took the muddy ground easily - but she was a bilge keeler.

http://youtu.be/54DDkePGcRg

Ignore the soundtrack.....

 

[Fantasie 19]

Good owners blog here - he's gone quiet lately, but if you fancy an interesting read it's got it in spades... his is a Pandora International and a bilge keeler, but he's raced her round the IoW a few times,and she looks eminently "capable"...

 

[Stooriefit]

We had a Pandora lifting keel as a family boat that we owned for over 20 years. We sailed her on the Clyde from Troon mainly as a day sailor but also making summer holiday passages to Arran and Loch Fyne. I didn't have any problems with her although we didn't sail her in anything more than an F6. I think there is a fleet of them at Abersoch on Wales and it maybe that someone there would take you to give you a feel for her.

 

[matg]

One of the reviews, the PBO used boat test on it, usefully compares it to other similar size boats, and of those comparisons, the Hurley 22 is the one that looks so much bigger. Having sailed as crew on a Hurley 22 I was impressed, so that's probably the sort of thing we would be looking for.

The Pandora and the Hurley are very similar performing boats (both designed in the 60s). Length, beam and freeboard are closely matched. The standard Hurley was a deep keel, although a bilge keel was also available - not sure about a lifting keel version though.

I currently sail a Pandora 700 and it's great. Sails well in light breezes and in a blow. Very predictable handling, so very easy to balance the sails. Sails at all points to the wind well.
I'd highly recommend one. Not sure about the lifting keel version - seen pics and they definitely have the keel stump - same as the Sonata 7. Mine's a bilge keel version which is good for drying out.

m.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

We had a Trotter in the 1960s; that was the Grimsby Marine Plastics version of the Pandora, I think. I recall a perfectly capable little vessel; she had heavy weather helm, but I suspect that careful setting up and some re-rigging would sort that. She could keep up with most other vessels of her size. I was not very old at the time, so my memories are a bit vague - the main one is passing through the lock at South Ferriby and a bystander saying "Do they all sleep on that?" As the comment indicates, they aren't big and everyone aboard had better be good friends! The interior of that version was very much "open plan" - there were no full-height bulkheads inside.