Using old flares for New Years Eve fireworks

[blackbeard]

There does seem to be some confusion in at least some of the posts, between rocket/parachute flares and hand-held pin-point reds. Rockets are dangerous and can kill, and have done following serious mis-use; note also points made about setting fire to England's green and pleasant land. Hand-held pin-point reds are not intended as fireworks and need careful handling (as in gloves, handy bucket of water, also a seriously out-of-date flare may do something unexpected so don't chance it) but if you set off one in this way, at least you will know what to expect if you need to fire one in a distress situation. Note that the body of the flare will become red-hot so don't, for instance, give it to a child.

Has anyone actually had an orange dog after firing a smoke flare?

I understand that some Force 4 chandlers will take, for no additional cost, old flares on a like-for-like basis when new ones are bought. Some other chandlers will take old flares for disposal for a modest charge.

For the record, I refuse to have rocket flares on my boat. There are better and safer ways to signal distress.

 

[Plum]

The idea that anyone would call emergency services on a night when fireworks are rife in an area away from coasts ........... It is simply ridiculous to suggest that this might result in emergency call-outs.

But people who know the difference between a firework and a parachute flare do call the emergency services and, yes, the emergency services do get called out to search. Very frustrating for the volunteers who may have got out of bed to search.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[prv]

Has anyone actually had an orange dog after firing a smoke flare?

I've had various stuff around my patio stained orange when a New Year's Eve guest years ago unexpectedly produced and set off a smoke flare to accompany the firework rockets I was launching at midnight. The orange is more in the nature of greasy particles than true smoke.

I agree that there's nothing wrong, and some benefit, in setting off a handheld flare in a private place. Having done so, I can't imagine it being a harmonious addition to a fireworks party.

Pete

 

[blackbeard]

I've had various stuff around my patio stained orange when a New Year's Eve guest years ago unexpectedly produced and set off a smoke flare to accompany the firework rockets I was launching at midnight. The orange is more in the nature of greasy particles than true smoke.

I agree that there's nothing wrong, and some benefit, in setting off a handheld flare in a private place. Having done so, I can't imagine it being a harmonious addition to a fireworks party.

Pete

H'm, won't let a smoke off in my backyard then. Intend to retain harmonious relations with neighbours.

Agree, a hand-held pinpoint red is not the ideal contribution to a fireworks party, I imagine it could cause some nasty burns injuries.

 

[prv]

Agree, a hand-held pinpoint red is not the ideal contribution to a fireworks party, I imagine it could cause some nasty burns injuries.

I don't think it's unduly dangerous, just extremely bright, somewhat noisy, and needs people to stand clear of it. It also burns for around a minute which will feel like quite a long time as you stand there like a lemon with everyone looking at you - by design, they are difficult things to ignore

Pete

 

[PetiteFleur]

I can remember years ago letting off handheld red flares at a bonfire night. These were the type that you had to bang the base to let them off - it was B***** difficult! You had to bang them HARD onto a hard surface - a bit difficult in a liferaft/rubber dinghy... my wife could not do it even on a hard surface... so would have been pretty useless in an emergency at sea. On the other hand the parachute flare that was fired, several years out of date, worked fine.

 

[[70521]]

Got expired flares that I would like to use New Years Eve as fireworks. The party is not anywhere near water.
Health and safety aside, would that be allowed? Your counsel on the legality of this matter would be appreciated.

Why not just exchange them when you buy your new flares?

 

[LittleSister]

I've fired off a fair number of out-of-date hand-helds (every boat I've bought seemed to come with a generous selection) on bonfire nights.. This was well inland, in an open field (well away from any buildings, cars, etc.) and hidden from public view, and wearing leather gauntlets, googles and a thick coat & hat (and may have been in a country where such things were legal ).

The newest ones were only just out of date, and the oldest ones were over 20 years old. All fired OK with no drama, but the older ones were pale in colour. The only problem I had was one which did not burn all the way down, leaving me to wonder whether it was just the casing that had survived or had it gone out prematurely leaving flammable material inside, and in a quandary about how to dispose of it. In the end I waited until the few guests had left and threw it from a distance onto the remains of a big bonfire. I didn't detect any flaring, and recovered the empty casing when the fire was out and cold a couple of days later.

Though potentially dangerous, it was reassuring to discover how un-terrifying they are to operate, and find out how they work. It struck me that, given the variety in operating mechanisms (pull cord or strike bottom, etc.), it was very difficult to read the instructions and diagrams on the flares in poor light - you really need to know in advance of an emergency which ones you have, not helped by some bought sets have mixed operating mechanisms . Some of the flares had what looked like a handle at both ends - getting it the wrong way round could be disastrous, but more likely you'd just fail to set them off.

 

[KellysEye]

In Lagos, Portugal under coastguard supervision, and wearing gloves an expired parachute flare exploded in a man's hand.

 

[JumbleDuck]

For those who don't / can't open a link, the relevant bit quoted from the above is: -

The fact of the matter is that it is illegal.

Not necessarily. Someone asked the MCA a while ago to justify their claim about it being illegal to fire flares on land, and it seems they just made that up. It is illegal to signal distress where none exists, anywhere, but as long as you avoid that, you're golden. I used to fly at a gliding club where all gliders carried miniflares after someone crashed the surrounding forestry and could not be found for many hours.

 

[NormanS]

Not necessarily. Someone asked the MCA a while ago to justify their claim about it being illegal to fire flares on land, and it seems they just made that up. It is illegal to signal distress where none exists, anywhere, but as long as you avoid that, you're golden. I used to fly at a gliding club where all gliders carried miniflares after someone crashed the surrounding forestry and could not be found for many hours.

Well, I would have thought that it was always going to be perfectly legal to use a distress flare, in a distress situation. Who says otherwise?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Because it's illegal?

sarabande's post #8 gives you chapter and verse.

With all due respect to Sarabande, he only quoted an unsupported MCA opinion. A quick google will show that lots of people have tried to find relevant legislation and nobody has managed it. The Merchant Shipping (Distress Signals and Prevention of Collisions) Regulations 1996 covers distress signals at sea and the Pyrotechnic Articles (Safety) Regulations 2015 covers the manufacture, import and distribution of pyrotechnics, but does not apply to end users. It is illegal to have a pyrotechnic at specified music festivals, according to S134 of the Policing and Crime Act 2017.

But people who know the difference between a firework and a parachute flare do call the emergency services and, yes, the emergency services do get called out to search.

Could you give us a few examples of that happening? By the way, I agree with everyone that banging off parachute flares inland is a bad idea.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Well, I would have thought that it was always going to be perfectly legal to use a distress flare, in a distress situation. Who says otherwise?

 

[NormanS]

Well that's interesting (although I could have read it alright, without being shouted at)

Does that mean that even in a distress situation, it is illegal to use a distress flare in the hills? Of course not!

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Not necessarily. ....... .

I had a feeling that this may be challenged but I guess I'll believe the MCA as I have no other source of information easily available.

 

[Momac]

The idea that anyone would call emergency services on a night when fireworks are rife in an area away from coasts and moors/mountains is about as far-fetched as an idea can be. For a start flares have no recognised function outside those areas, they mean nothing to anyone. They are also most unlikley to be recognised as emergency flares anyway. It is simply ridiculous to suggest that this might result in emergency call-outs. Why would they respond to a firework? Does Guy Fawkes day result in thousands of mistaken SAR callouts because of fireworks? A burning barrel of tar is supposed to be a maritime emergency signal as is an inverted flag. Would anyone mistake either of these for an emergency on land? Ridiculous!

Thank you for your unnecessarily long rant.

A friend set off a flare inland at night as a means of disposal and the police did turn up after they received a call .
Admittedly it was not on bonfire night.
But it does demonstrate a distress flare may mean something even if used inland.

 

[duncan99210]

I seem to recall a thread on here on this topic a couple of years or so back where no one could identify the legislation forbidding the firing of distress flares on land. The police take on it (relayed by someone who’d asked the question) was that it could be viewed as a public nuisance and therefore prohibited but there didn’t seem to be a specific offence. Setting them off at sea unless there is a distress situation is forbidden under whatever UK law codifies SOLAS rules.
I’ve often fired smoke and hand held flares on bonfire night and New Year... not fired a parachute flare for the reasons articulated by others above.

 

[jwilson]

Long long ago along with others have fired old flares on bonfire night mixed in with ordinary fireworks - parachutes pointed well out to sea - no moored boats or other property at risk from burning flares. It was at the local lifeboat slipway....

 

[fisherman]

my wife could not do it even on a hard surface....

Mine neither.
Remember also, how far a rocket para might be seen, someone at sea might not know it was inland.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Well that's interesting (although I could have read it alright, without being shouted at)

Sorry. I'm lazy, and it's very, very easy in Ubuntu to quote with a screenshot. That's the MCA shouting at you.

Does that mean that even in a distress situation, it is illegal to use a distress flare in the hills? Of course not!

Indeed. I suspect they gave that page to an intern to do.