Using bladder tanks in the biges for extra fuel capacity ?

BartW, the English word is "manifold" not collector. Google for 8 way manifold 1" BSP

Eg this came at top of page http://mouldshop.co.uk/products/46-manifolds/4557-stainless-steel-manifold-1/
but there will be plenty of others

EDIT - Sorry I just noticed that one has 1/2" ports. The 1 inch is the feed

Bit more googling needed. Colhel on here could machine you one out of a length of brass billet!

Bart, 1" BSP is pretty large. I do not have that on my fuel delivery for 1622HP engines. I have it on my tank connections (balance pipes) but you do not need it for engine feeds or transfer lines. 1/2" BSP is fine
 
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jfm said:
Bart, 1" BSP is pretty large. I do not have that on my fuel delivery for 1622HP engines. I have it on my tank connections (balance pipes) but you do not need it for engine feeds or transfer lines. 1/2" BSP is fine
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I have a 1" ID rubber transfert hose installed, and most pumps of 75l....80l/min have 1" connections,
and the fittings for the bladder tanks are 1",
so would like to make it all 1"

spend some time googling but didn't find so far,
I believe I'll need Colhell, or someone here locally, to make one,
 
I think I have 3/4inch feeding into a small 10lt tank where from engine and genny pickup.

I'd question the need for a manifold and would recommend a small tank with all inlets on top/middle and outlets middle but not bottom AND a bottom cleaning outlet so that if you pickup something you'll be able to "easily" get rid of it before moving to the engine prefilters, no?

FWIW, we do have some slightly different "manifolds" down here, I'll check tomorrow if they are 1inch, if so they are ideal as its a plain tube with female threads to bolt your own components (typically start with a quarter turn spherical valve)

cheers

V
 
vas said:
I think I have 3/4inch feeding into a small 10lt tank where from engine and genny pickup
V
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I don't think that works vas. These engines are ballpark 300 litres/ hour. Assuming 5x returned fuel ratio that's 3000 LPH draw for two engines. 10 litres will last 12 seconds. To replenish that rate thru 3/4 bsp pipe you'll need quite some head. Ain't worth the effort IMHO. You cannot send the returned fuel to the 10 litres tank because it is hot and needs to go to a big tank ( I don't think BA has return fuel coolers)
 
jfm said:
I don't think that works vas. These engines are ballpark 300 litres/ hour. Assuming 5x returned fuel ratio that's 3000 LPH draw for two engines. 10 litres will last 12 seconds. To replenish that rate thru 3/4 bsp pipe you'll need quite some head. Ain't worth the effort IMHO. You cannot send the returned fuel to the 10 litres tank because it is hot and needs to go to a big tank ( I don't think BA has return fuel coolers)
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sorry John,

I meant pickup for engines and genny and only feed from tanks.
Fuel return from engines is done to main tanks, not the tiny collector tank.

cheers

V.
 
Yep but unless you are replenishing the little tank at one litre per second it ain't gonna work! You won't achieve that by gravity and a 3/4 inch pipe!
 
the most convenient connection to the existing tanks, is a spare opening on the side / bottom of one of the wing tanks,
and that connection is coincidently 1", and it has a tap on it already.
so thats where the hose leading to the manifold for the bladders, is going to right now.
need a few extra fittings to finalise the connection,
this way I can do the installation without any risc of spillage, nor any complex modification on the existing installation.

the existing fuel system has a "decantation box " (approx 2 x 10l) from which the engines and genny's take their fuel.
This box is positioned in the bilge right between the two engines, and in front of the engines pre filters
every now and then, I drain the dirty fuel from the bottom of this decantion box,
supply hose connections to engine and genny are on top of the box

the return hoses go back in the big tanks, not in this box.
the fuel hoses to each engines are approx 1/2" BSP

I'll make a few pics when I'm at the boat next time.
 
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Hi Bart, just wanted to ask whether you could find the time to post a couple of pics of your final installation. Very interested to see how the bladders fit in your bilges and how you fixed them to the structure of BA!

Any interesting experiences to share after one season of boating with the new setup?
 
Hi there, last summer most of the parts arrived and we started but didn't finish the installation. Coincidently my friends are working on this installation while I am typing here on the boat right now, hopefully finished this week will post pics later.
 
Naah, why fight a losing battle? The planet doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell anyway.
What we moboers do is just an attempt to put it out of its misery, enjoying its last breaths of life till we can. :cool: :p
 
Here as promissed some pics from the installation that we finished today: (so far)

This is the SS Steel manifold with SS Steel taps that I had custom made by a friend

IMG_2308.jpg


Here is the manifold and pump installed in a bilge compartment (in the centrum between the two side cabins

IMG_2768.jpg



A bilge compartment in the master bedroom, prepared for the bladder tank, with plywood slopes / wedges
And a plywood protection around some tubes and cable bundles , as explained earlyer in this thread.

IMG_1723.jpg


Close up here,
The black tube is the warm water supply, picture was taken before this tube was removed out of this bilge compartment

IMG_1725.jpg


And here the tank is filled for the first time with fuel. hose needs a bit of repositioning, but thats easy.

IMG_2775.jpg


Very first test today worked very well. I'm really satisfied that our idea works and is practically useable.
The compartments that have the two tanks now can carry 2 x 350l

The two next bilge compartments can carry at least 2 x 450l
also the next pair could be used, (but more difficult acces)
BUT Actually we also filled the tank while outside the bilges, left and right of the bed in the master cabin,
If really wanted, one could place there 2 tanks of 700l each (model available from Nauta!)
 
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Sorry to be a bit late to the thread, but I've only just started to unlurk. Wouldn't it have been better to have a smooth sheet of ply on top of the stringers all the way to the keel? That way, you could have had a hole through the ply at the lowest point and run the pipes along either side of the keel, under the ply/bladders, so gravity would have allowed the tanks to empty completely?
 
jfm said:
If he wants to load his barge at Montenegro prices and deliver it to us in Italy and France for an extra cent per litre, sign me up for 50,000 please
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I should be in Montenegro from August onwards, jfm and I'll do you a cheaper price than Bart;) On this subject, why aren't there fuel barges in the Med buying fuel from low duty countries like Gib and Montenegro and selling it in international waters just off high duty countries to pleasure boaters?
 
Very interesting, many thanks for the pics! How is BA now handling fully loaden. Does it notably affect speed and/or consumption? Do you still see the loadline? I guess the bladders have been made on specs. Were they expensive? What fuel pipe make did you install in the end?

Re fuel barges Deleted User, very interesting question. Is it because waves in open waters makes docking alongside big barges more challenging? Or the economics? Running a smallish tanker with 2500 dwt may cost around 3000 USD a day? They need to sell 20-30MT a day to cover those costs? And how long does it take to put 2MT in a 50' plastic bathtube, 30min? Would this be pratical?
 
Shirley Knot said:
Sorry to be a bit late to the thread, but I've only just started to unlurk. Wouldn't it have been better to have a smooth sheet of ply on top of the stringers all the way to the keel? That way, you could have had a hole through the ply at the lowest point and run the pipes along either side of the keel, under the ply/bladders, so gravity would have allowed the tanks to empty completely?
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Good idea in principle - in fact, some long range vessels are built like that from the ground up, i.e. with double hull and integral tanks.
But I'm not sure I would go that far in a retrofitting like the one BartW did on BA - if nothing else, because I'd rather be able to inspect the bilge bottom without dismantling half boat...

Re. the fuel barge debate, aside from the fact that they should offer such service outside territorial waters, hence making the refuel bumpy at best and plain impossible at worst, I suspect that it's not worth for the very simple reason that the most appealing market - i.e. large vessels which can take a lot of fuel - already can access tax free fuel just about anywhere, being registered as commercial boats.
Actually, it also takes a bit of bureaucracy on top of the registration alone, but that's normally worth the hassle for this type of boats, which btw are normally crewed.
 
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