Using an Ipad as a plotter

[Dave99]

The new Maxsea Time Zero app looks pretty good. For those not familiar with Maxsea it's a semi pro solution used by quite a few of the big yachts 100ft + it's also used by racing boats. The desktop version is expensive but very good, some of the best bits are the routing and weather system and fast passage planning. The app looks like it's free and then charts are around £30. I just need to get myself and iPad to try it on!

 

[ninky]

iNavX is still pretty useless for the specific purpose of route planning, so I haven't even included it.

What is it for then? Just to check position?

I installed a garmin chartplotter on my current boat, but I like to passage plan using the old fashioned method of charts / pilot guide - and then just use the chartplotter as a confidence boost whilst under way. However, I'm in the process of changing boats and the (possible) new one doesn't have a chartplotter, so I was thinking of going down the app route (husband has iPad and we both have iPhones).

Will definitely take a look at your book(s)

 

[chartnavigator]

What is it for then? Just to check position?

It seems to me to be very much oriented in the GPS navigation mode, with lots of ability to interface with existing equipment on your boat.

iNavX is useless for route planning though, because it's distance measuring ruler is impossible to keep on screen when you zoom or scroll the chart. Tidestream compensation requires a measuring device that can handle high zoom short vectors, (like 0.9 knots, (nm) and also zoom out to high zooms to plot a 4nm waypoint with the other end of the ruler, (while the ruler stays on screen until you tell the app you no longer require it). Imray Charts does this OK, no problems, so does Navionics. Garmin BlueChart can do it but you need to be a bit canny to plot a waypoint at a ruler end because it does not have that ability yet. I did it at maximum zoom with the ruler end dead centre screen, cancel the ruler and place the waypoint dead centre screen. At high zoom it is bound to be within about 20 ft of where the ruler end was. (Perhaps in future updates they will enable the user to place waypoints at the ruler ends by adding a cursor for that purpose, like Marine Imray Charts has, who knows).

Regards Chris.

 

[stuartwineberg]

+1 just to add you can get a specific 12 volt "cigar lighter" plug on Amazon that does charge the ipad. It actually has 2 usb sockets so you can also keep your phone topped up at the same time. Just bear in mind these are simple chartplotters - speed, location, track, route. No AIS, no integration with other devices like radar. For me as a Solent potterer it is pretty near ideal

iPad 2 is what I have. Chart plotting with the Navionics App, that is about £35 incl all UK and Holland, I think. Brilliant performer!

I have paper Imray charts as backup, they cover a big area and include harbour plans, so can get into shelter if electronics fail. All the paper charts recommended for my trips this year would cost more than £1000, iPad definintley cheaper. Spent another £50 for MemoryMap app with 800 Uk Admiralty charts

You must have the higher spec model iPad to get the internal gps receiver. That also let's you put in a sim card, then get mobile broadband from the 3 network. Brilliant, that gives me internet connection, almost every port and lots of anchorages from Hamble to Skye.

Points to ponder. You need to keep it dry. Waterproof case, (or just get an HR Rasmus 35 like mine with hardtop over front of cockpit and upstairs nav table.)

And you need to charge the iPad. Mine does at least 12 hours trip on a full battery, plotting all the time but lid closed until I want to see the chart. I found that 12v charger was not quick enough at recharging the iPad. Bought a small inverter to get 240v for charging, that does it well.

Can you tell I am an iPad fan? Go for it.

 

[chartnavigator]

The new Maxsea Time Zero app looks pretty good. For those not familiar with Maxsea it's a semi pro solution used by quite a few of the big yachts 100ft + it's also used by racing boats. The desktop version is expensive but very good, some of the best bits are the routing and weather system and fast passage planning. The app looks like it's free and then charts are around £30. I just need to get myself and iPad to try it on!

Thanks for alerting me to this one Dave99. I've had a look at it on the iPad and on first sight it seems OK for route planning and coastal port hopping. A couple of things though. The demo version does not seem able to export waypoint data. There seems to be no way to plot a waypoint or 'marker', (as this iPad app calls them), at a co-ordinate specified position. This would make recording waypoint positions on a hard copy route list difficult and laborious. The app crashed four or five times while I was playing with it but all the customization of settings came back OK on reload each time. There are quite a lot of things that can be customized, including the time that user interface auto hide displays callouts for. I though I was going to find this app extremely tedious when menu callouts would only stay on screen for 5 seconds. Fortunately that was customizable.

I found it smooth to operate, quite responsive and easy to drag and plot stream vectors with. I like the measuring device, (very smooth and positive at all zoom levels), over which you have complete control and can manually cancel when finished with. Plotting waypoints seems very easy and making and editing routes also easy. I have not looked at how they are managed once they are produced though. I have not paid to download the UK charts yet but the American one of Florida provided looks quite good and very detailed. I would not say on initial inspection though that the app is as versatile or comprehensive as Imray Charts or Navionics. It certainly looks more slick than Garmin BlueChart, but not so pretty. It is 100% better than iNavX for route planning though, but that's not difficult to achieve.

All in all I still think 'Marine Imray Charts' app is the best value for money if you want to route plan in tidal waters, like the look of real charts and want easy ways to export or import data to your laptop or desktop computer / printer. Navionics or Garmin, if you prefer vector graphics, easy to see and read point to point GPS route data and the ability to zoom in to very small detail.

Regards Chris.

 

[eddystone]

I would appreciate some advice just starting out with chart plotter thingies!

Background - just buying 9.5ish metre yacht - last time I sailed a big boat was over 5 years ago - navigation skills primitive - basically used to paper chart navigation using GPS fix to correct EPs. In last 3 years sailing gaffer within Lyme Bay area tried to use Navionics on Samsung Galaxy phone - struggled to remove from Aquapac so that I can read it then the battery died. My priority for application of limited funds is sail handling, ground tackle handling and safety equipment. Short term usage - unadventurous; longer term more adventurous, single-handing a priority. The boat currently has oldish non-interfaceable tillerpilot, analogue depth/digital repeater, log, GPS and Decca (must have come from older boat - seem to remember obsolescent even in'86). Also increasing problem with mid-distance (1-2 metres) sight.

My thinking was defer very expensive kit until really needed (and probably better) therefore don't get a chart plotter. If I had a tablet with dedicated waterproof cover and integral or plug in GPS, plus plug in AIS, the screen would be bigger than any chart plotter I'm likely to get and I could place it where I want it, using heavy duty Velcro (don't like drilling holes unless permanent. Back up would be paper chart/GPS plus same apps on large screen smartphone.

Questions:

Are there Android tabs with similar battery life to ipad?
How do you update electronic charts - is that an extra cost and how often updated?
Are there any waterproof cases for tablets which have a waterproof aperture so that can run DC with a lead down an inverter below?
Can you get separate GPS and AIS aerial to link to tablet by wireless - obviously if you have lots of things plugged in, it's not going to be waterproof?

 

[eddystone]

Alright, perhaps I can simplify my question - is it possible to have a tablet in the cockpit in a waterproof enclosure and maintain connectivity to AIS and more external GPS input?

 

[chartnavigator]

iPad has bluetooth capability. It can wirelessly communicate with any bluetooth capable navigational device within range. (Where are you hoping to get AIS data from on board)? iPads have GPS already, no connections necessary. Apple iPads also should be charged fully then discharged to 10% in use. Leaving them plugged into the power supply is not good for the iPad battery. With GPS on and using the screen full time, 100% charge will give you at least 6 hours, maybe more before a recharge is necessary. The iPad can also be used when charging.

iPad has a large enough screen for use by visually impaired. If you are going to use it in the cockpit I would suggest using Navionics app for pilotage and Imray Charts with Tucabo Tidesplan for route planning. Navionics has nice big, easy to see graphics. Imray has easy to use tides/currents, support and affordable chart updates. To see what they are like in action on an iPad visit routelist.co.uk. Free PDF's of the screen displays are viewable there.

Regards Chris.

 

[bbg]

I have been given an Ipad 2 and have downloaded an Imray chart as a test as I think that it would make a good plotter. Any thoughts? I would only initially want to use the boat on the East Coast and the Thames Estury and very possibly to venture over to the very near coast of France.

I have done the Round Gotland race in Sweden (3-days, in and out of the Stockholm archipelago) using exclusively* an iPad for navigation. You should be fine. It needs to be kept dry, and needs to be kept plugged in to retain its charge.

*I didn't know how "exclusive" it was until the house battery died and I asked the skipper for the charts. "What charts?"

 

[eddystone]

iPad has bluetooth capability. It can wirelessly communicate with any bluetooth capable navigational device within range. (Where are you hoping to get AIS data from on board)? iPads have GPS already, no connections necessary. Apple iPads also should be charged fully then discharged to 10% in use. Leaving them plugged into the power supply is not good for the iPad battery. With GPS on and using the screen full time, 100% charge will give you at least 6 hours, maybe more before a recharge is necessary. The iPad can also be used when charging.

iPad has a large enough screen for use by visually impaired. If you are going to use it in the cockpit I would suggest using Navionics app for pilotage and Imray Charts with Tucabo Tidesplan for route planning. Navionics has nice big, easy to see graphics. Imray has easy to use tides/currents, support and affordable chart updates. To see what they are like in action on an iPad visit routelist.co.uk. Free PDF's of the screen displays are viewable there.

Regards Chris.

I'd thought the AIS from Digital Yacht iAIS wireless receiver (like transceiver but don't do wireless one) but not sure if it needs a chartplotter for it's GPS signal.

Is the internal GPS in iPad as good as having separate antenna somewhere?

 

[eddystone]

I'd thought the AIS from Digital Yacht iAIS wireless receiver (like transceiver but don't do wireless one) but not sure if it needs a chartplotter for it's GPS signal.

Is the internal GPS in iPad as good as having separate antenna somewhere?

Just checked - it doesn't
It isn't
Just looking at the ipad with retina display - I wonder if this; a)improves visibility in sunlight; b) reduces battery life?

 

[laika]

I'd thought the AIS from Digital Yacht iAIS wireless receiver (like transceiver but don't do wireless one) but not sure if it needs a chartplotter for it's GPS signal.

Is the internal GPS in iPad as good as having separate antenna somewhere?

I may be telling you what you already know but you don't have to have an AIS receiver with integrated wireless. You can buy your transceiver, take the output and hook it up other device(s) which make up a wireless network for a boat. There are several dedicated nmea-0183 multiplexers with wireless output which would solve all your nmea-to-wifi multiplexing issues. That's possibly the simplest solution but would cost a few hundred euros. Many people use a normal home access point: You need a computer (laptop, raspberry pi) plugged into the access point to feed your AIS into, then have some simple software to take the serial line data and punt it out over the network. It's also possible to do without the access point and make said computer an access point itself.

I don't have an ipad but I think most people find the internal GPS works fine.

Note that iNavX does AIS as you desire. chartnavigator's suggestion of navionics/tucabo doesn't AFAIK, but I believe he has his own reasons for making that recommendation.

 

[chartnavigator]

The GPS in iPad is very good and needs no separate antenna.

Some iPad apps such as iNavX have AIS too but as far as I know it depends on a G3 signal to get data from a server, (or an internet connection via a home hub), so is not reliable enough on its own for longish passages at sea. Some other means of getting the AIS data would need to be arranged if you want it to be reliable, such as the network suggested by the previous poster, with your AIS being provided by a dedicated AIS receiver and antenna elsewhere on the boat and connected via bluetooth to the iPad, (I have no idea if such a set up exists among members in here).

Regards Chris M.

 

[laika]

Some iPad apps such as iNavX have AIS too but as far as I know it depends on a G3 signal to get data from a server, (or an internet connection via a home hub), so is not reliable enough on its own for longish passages at sea. Some other means of getting the AIS data would need to be arranged if you want it to be reliable, such as the network suggested by the previous poster, with your AIS being provided by a dedicated AIS receiver and antenna elsewhere on the boat and connected via bluetooth to the iPad, (I have no idea if such a set up exists among members in here).

You're thinking of stuff like marinetraffic. iNavX can take an AIS stream over TCP from a wireless AIS device like the one eddystone was proposing or the serial output of an AIS device, converted to IP and punted out over the network (which I was waffling about). No phone connection required

 

[Bosun Higgs]

I have been given an Ipad 2 and have downloaded an Imray chart as a test as I think that it would make a good plotter. Any thoughts? I would only initially want to use the boat on the East Coast and the Thames Estury and very possibly to venture over to the very near coast of France.

I have on board a phone, a tablet ( both with navionics) a lappy with cmap, a raymarine plotter and paper charts. I'm not likely to get lost! The tablet and phone cant really be used as a plotter - they lack a lot of the functions, battery life using gps isnt great, recharge rate is slow and they arent waterproof. What you can do with them is to use them as a quick check of where you are, for example conning the boat into an estuary.

The lappy is even worse. Battery life is carp, the screen isnt much bigger than the tablet, the software is better than the tablet, but again its not waterproof.

The Raymarine plotter is very effective and properly wired up ( mine isnt) will steer the boat for you.

For planning a route, there is nothing as good as paper charts.

So if you have a tablet why not try the navionics software or an app I quite like - gps nautical. All the UK charts for about £20. Raster and UKHO.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Is it possible to use a Garmin 4008 to get on the internet, do some letters perhaps and a spread sheet, send some emails etc? Id like to do this, there must be some way.

 

[eddystone]

OK so, could use an AIS non-wireless transponder and still route its output to a tablet which is good, but now understand (hasten to say I don't have a tablet and having to buy one which I wouldn't otherwise use does somewhat alter the economics) but understand the latest Ipad takes 6 hours to recharge - doesn't that really rule it out as a sole navigation device (apart from charts I mean)?

 

[chartnavigator]

It is very inadvisable to use an iPad as a 'sole navigation device', for obvious practical reasons. In the event of an emergency that could be attributed to a lack of other means of navigation, (like charts, GPS, etc.), it could seriously and expensively rebound on you in the shape of a prosecution by the maritime authorities.

Tablets are a brilliant 'aid to navigation', but that is ALL they are. They replace nothing essential and it should be perfectly possible to navigate the boat without them, using much less 'vulnerable' navigational apparatus.

What you really ought to do is have a 'routelist' in the cockpit and the iPad secured by the chart table along with the charts.

The charging time for most tablets is not an issue unless the tablet is going to be 'out of use' while charging. If a regulated power supply of the right voltage can be delivered to the tablet, 'in situ' then there is no problem using it while it charges. It is apparently not good for them to leave them on charge indefinitely. (Fairly obvious really).

Regards Chris

 

[eddystone]

I think I've now gone through 360degrees!
Dismissed idea of ipad as "sole" device (apart from paper and back up Garmin 128 GPS) mainly on account of recharge time. Next thought was cheapest decent 7" plotter at chart table (Garmin 750) plus Digital Yacht AIT200 tranceiver with separate and independent use of navionics on tablet for use in cockpit. However I think it's worth shelling out for Raymarine e7 which can stream by wireless to an ipad/ipad mini as a repeater (have to check whether can do same with cheaper android tablet) so get overlaid AIS as well.

 

[chartnavigator]

I'm still inclined to agree that the cockpit is not the safest place for an iPad, even in a waterproof case. In daylight a printed routelist and a plastic laminated chartlet of the route showing waypoints bearings etc would be more practical. I can see though that an iPad running plotting software would be a great asset at night or in fog.

Regards.