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useless marine surveyors
- Thread starter keelbolts9
- Start date
TradewindSailor
Well-Known Member
If the boat was sitting on its keel when surveyed, it might be impossible for the surveyor to spot it.
If the keel is bolted on and the nuts are exposed, I would have expected the surveyor to ensure that the nuts were tight. If the nuts were glassed in he should have suggested that the owner have the covering removed so that the nuts and plates could be inspected. He might even recommend that a sample of the bolts are removed for inspection.
If the filler was cracked or missing around the keel it should have fueled the surveyor's suspicions to looks for other signs of movement, or to recommend the keel to be inspected whilst the boat was lifted. However most keel seams are show some movement at the end of the season anyway; so it's not a reliable sign.
TradewindSailor
Well-Known Member
Sorry have to disagee on the hull strengh and lay up issue ,any good surveyor should find out and its not that hard if they know where to look and ask the right people. I use the same surveyor every time with no issues at all.One of the boats I purchased I asked about the frames around the keel ,he came back with all the dimensions and lay up . It was an old IOR boat. As to wood same again no problems. In my experience owning boats you really do get what you pay for when it comes to surveyors.
It's one thing to know what the designer intended, it is another to know what is actually there on a particular boat.
On glass fibre hulls you can sound the hull for inconsistencies and look for cracks and deformations, but if the boat has had a good cosmetic repair it may be difficult for any surveyor to identify a problem.
A surveyor can only detect what he can see, hear, smell, feel ... or detect using instumentation. The test of a good surveyor is that they understand the significance of what they have found.
It is always a good idea to check a surveyors qualifications with the institutions/associations. I have come across so called surveyors that lie about their degree of qualification ..... or indeed make up their own 'professional' institution. Likewise it is a good idea to check that they have valid PI insurance.
Crabman
Well-Known Member
Who would make up there own institution?When I was looking for a surveyor I went to RINA, YBDSA , IIMS EYSA and asked in the yacht club.To be members of these surely the surveyors have to have PI insurance to join dont they? I would like to know who makes up a instituation as im sure others would.Who would lie about there qualifications? Thats just sad.
TradewindSailor
Well-Known Member
Who would make up there own institution?When I was looking for a surveyor I went to RINA, YBDSA , IIMS EYSA and asked in the yacht club.To be members of these surely the surveyors have to have PI insurance to join dont they? I would like to know who makes up a instituation as im sure others would.Who would lie about there qualifications? Thats just sad.
Yes ..... it is sad, particularly for those that rely on their reports and advice.
No, you don't need PI insurance to join an institution, but you usually are required to have PI insurance to practice as a surveyor. PI insurance also has to cover the type of survey being carried out. Therefore it may be a guide as to the insurers degree of confidence in that surveyor in particular fields of competence.
dt4134
Well-Known Member
Who would make up there own institution?When I was looking for a surveyor I went to RINA, YBDSA , IIMS EYSA and asked in the yacht club.
Weren't all those institutions made up by someone? I certainly remember no mention of them in Genesis, and there are passages in there about boatbuilding.
TradewindSailor
Well-Known Member
Weren't all those institutions made up by someone? I certainly remember no mention of them in Genesis, and there are passages in there about boatbuilding.
It is rather a question of the competency of the Institution and what they were set up to do.
About RINA
Founded in 1860 in London to "...advance the art and science of ship design... " today the Royal Institution of Naval Architects is a world renowned and highly respected international professional institution and learned society whose members are involved at all levels in the design, construction, maintenance and operation of all marine vessels and structures. RINA has members in over 90 countries, and is widely represented in industry, universities and colleges, and maritime organisations world-wide.
About the YBDSA
The Yacht Brokers, Designers and Surveyors Association comprises several professional associations -
Yacht Designers and Surveyors Association
The Association of Yacht Brokers and Yacht Agents
Professional Charter Association
About the International Institute of Marine Surveying
The International Institute of Marine Surveying is an independent, non-political organisation. Membership is open to Qualified Mariners, Cargo Surveyors, Yacht and Small Craft Surveyors, and Marine Consultants from around the world. Individuals, with specialised knowledge, experience or skills able to contribute and enhance the aims and objectives of the Institute are also invited to join.
dt4134
Well-Known Member
It is rather a question of the competency of the Institution and what they were set up to do.
I know, my post was rather tongue-in-cheek.
When I was buying my own boat I was advised by someone who knew what he was talking about to get a RINA surveyor, although he did later accept that YBDSA aren't that bad.
My only experience of an IIMS surveyor involved someone else's boat, but from what I saw I wasn't impressed. In fact, the funny part of it was when he got on his high horse and wrote to the owner boasting about his experience & qualifications it was noticeable that his list had hardly anything to do with yacht surveying.
Crabman
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that TradewindSailor. The surveyor I have used on numerous occasions is from RINA and very good.
TradewindSailor
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that TradewindSailor. The surveyor I have used on numerous occasions is from RINA and very good.
If they are Members or Fellows of RINA they must also have chartered engineer status. This is not the case with YDSA (YBDSA). Obviously a qualified naval architect should have the necessary experience and academic knowledge to assess structural and stability issues. I believe YDSA surveyors have to go through a period of training too, but I don't know what this entails.
Whatever the institution, the surveyor should have the necessary experience which should have been atested to by other qualified members. If they are found wanting then disciplinary action can be taken against them which could result in them being expelled from the institution.
It is important though that if the surveyor is knew to you that you check his membership details. As I believe I have said earlier, I have come across surveyors that have overstated their qualifications. Any reports or surveys produced by these people should be worse than useless in a court of law ..... which, at the end of the day, is where it could end up.