Used motorboat buying advice

[RIDSO]

Hi there,

I’m looking for a bit of used motorboat buying advice. I’ve had a small RIB for a couple of years and am now in the market to trade up. I’ve spent quite a while searching the internet and forums for a steer on the below, but have drawn a blank on the following couple of questions...

1. Assuming it’s been looked after, with the outboard serviced etc., what’s the optimal depreciation vs maintenance cost window for a small motorboat?

I’ve used 3-8 years as a rule of thumb for cars, but aware the boat market is very different. There are plenty of 2000-2008 pre financial crash small motorboats on the market and some still look great, but very few after that. Assuming usual recreational use, at what age do things like fiberglass water ingress or wiring, hydraulics or outboard reliability start becoming an issue?

2. How quickly do boats sell at this end of the market and how important is the boat's brand?

I’ve seen a guide stating the average number of days it takes to sell a boat being in the hundreds, however this included massive yachts. I’ve also read that brands like Jeanneau, Beneteau or Quicksilver are quicker to sell, but I’ve found few recent used examples outside of the continent.

Something like this Sea Mark is a good-looking boat for the money and ticks all the feature boxes that I’m after, but it’s a defunct brand, with no reputation for good quality and that I’d worry might be hard to sell on. As a side note, there is very little on the web re Sea Mark, but from what I could find out, these are Polish built boats marketed out of a UK marine merchant in the 00s which has subsequently folded and suspiciously changed its trading name several times!:

https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Bowriders-for-sale/semark-550sc/260350

In terms of the type of boat I’m after, which will be used for fishing, water skiing, days out with family and friends in the Solent and elsewhere (e.g. Fowey, Padstow etc.):

• Between 5.5-6.5m, making it big enough to get 10-15 miles off shore and handle force 1-4 changing sea states, but easy to tow and launch single-handed. I have a Land Rover Discovery 4, so towing capacity at this size isn’t an issue.

• Outboard motor.

• Deep V planing hull to cut through the Solent chop is really important, ideally with decent chines to keep dry, and a relatively stable platform at anchor for fishing etc. Aware everything’s a compromise with these factors.

• Ideally a centre console (or similar with easy access to the anchor), but with some weather protection (e.g. screen, optional bimini, camper hood etc.). Small cabin space in the console so that the mrs can use a portaloo out of sight. The above Sea Mark and other models like the Jeanneau 550 Cap Camarat CC has the loo space feature. Would consider a small cuddy also, like this Jeanneau, but would prefer the additional front deck space: https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Cuddy-Boat-for-sale/jeanneau-leader-605/262490

• Social friendly set-up for 4 people. Two turnable cockpit seats, passenger seats in the stern, sunbed/table features at bow.

I’d love to be spending sub £10k with a trailer. However, if that’s only going to get me a maintenance money pit, have reliability issues or be a boat that’s going to be very hard to sell on quickly if needed, I’d rather spend more money up front (perhaps up to £15k).

Any help or advice gratefully appreciated.

Cheers

 

[jrudge]

I have no experience in the size range you are looking st so I can only give a general answer.

Brand matters combined with geography matters a lot when you come to sell it. Fairline / princess etc popular with U.K. buyers, ferreti , Cranchi etc with med / Italian buyers. Quality may have something to do with it but it is mostly that say a U.K. buyer will know what a Fairline looks like and that they have a reasonable reputation and as such buyers will look for that make and model. They tend not to look for an unknown brand - but that does not make it a bad boat per se.

The flip side of course is you can pay less when you buy it. Personally I would stick to a known brand.

Age is a relative thing. For me it is about 10years. Everything deteriorates with age. Interiors, mechanicals, exterior pads etc and on a boat there is a lot of everything so the task to fix / renovate gets larger with time. Age is not all. The condition of boats varies considerably depending on how well they have been looked after.

At the end of the day you have a budget and in my view will want the best condition acceptable brand boat you can find for the money. That in turn should make it saleable.

Bear in mind that at the smaller end of the market people tend to upsize quite quickly and selling a boat is slower and more expensive than a car so if you can afford to skip a size now you may find you save some money in the long run.

 

[simonfraser]

motor likely to be the biggest risk when older.
the boat can be used if the hull etc is tatty.

 

[PalmaTarga]

There is a lot of variation in that size of boat. I have a Ryds 620 (swedish brand), I was also looking at the Cap Camerat WA. Both boats, after testing several in the size range shad much better build quality and weight which made the seakeeping a lot better than those with the Polish and Latvian hulls. Those hulls are ok on lakes, but for me, way too light for a comfortable and safe ride at sea, the Sea Mark looks like it's one of these hulls, as used by brands like Ornvik, Atol and Quicksilver during that time.

A friend had 2 x Atol 550's built in Poland which looks very similar to the SeaMark you are looking at. The first was replaced under warranty due to a cracked hull from what shouldn't have been too heavy a landing from hitting another boats wake, the second also cracked and has been sitting at the bottom of his garden for about 7 years now. With a Mercury 80 on the back, the hull barely touched the water due to it being so light with nearly no displacement.

In the age range you are looking at, you might also come across some with 2stroke outboards. From experience, keep clear of anything from Johnson/Envirinude from the early 00's.

 

[Jim@sea]

That Semark 550 sc looks quite a good little boat.
But I would be nervous about using that 2 wheel trailer as the photo does not show a brake cable underneath the trailer which means that it is an unbraked trailer, consequently you are only able to tow 750 kilos and I would assume that with a few gallons of fuel on board you could be over the towing limit.
Many years ago I bought a new 16ft Marina GT and a brand new trailer (single axle) and with fuel on board when towing the trailer chassis buckled.

 

[RIDSO]

Many thanks for the responses and advice, and apologies for my delay in reply. I wasn’t getting reply notifications.

Jim@sea agree that the trailer doesn’t look legal. If I was going for this boat, I’d want the current owner to deliver to the nearby marina I use where I’d store and self-launch it from this summer, before buying a new braked trailer. And also I’d want the purchase price to reflect the later.

PalmaTarga very interesting to your hear your experience with these hulls. I can’t find any info like weight etc. online about this SeaMark. I was under the assumption that a GRP hull of this size was just a basic and strong tub and I wouldn’t need to worry about structural issues! A cracked hull in rough sea sounds like a sunk boat! And I was under the impression that Quicksilver was a pretty reputable make, so surprised to hear that make in the mix.

Useful insight to have around brand and geography jrudge. 10 years or younger would be ideal, but seems to be right on the cusp of when people stopped buying new motorboards at this size. As I understand it, the financial crash wiped out most of the entry level market in the UK in 2008/2009, leading to a dried up subsequent second hand market.

I'd love a Jeanneau Cap Camarat, but good second hand ones seem hard to find in the UK. This one at 14.9k euros (albeit, no trailer) looks great, but it’s in the South of France:

https://www.boat24.com/en/powerboats/jeanneau/jeanneau-cap-camarat-55-cc/detail/374982/

 

[Hot Property]

If you can find a Cap Camera 625 WA it fits the bill nicely. Even includes a nice ski pole at the rear. 2 berth and room for loo, 2 swivelling seats. I used one in the Solent and seakeeping was good. Quite rare, £10k should secure one from around 2005 ish....

https://www.jeanneau.com/en-gb/boats/22-cap-camarat/226-cap-camarat-625-wa

 

[BruceK]

Would consider a small cuddy also, like this Jeanneau, but would prefer the additional front deck space: https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Cuddy-Boat-for-sale/jeanneau-leader-605/262490

Purely my opinion, but if you are going to be using it at sea lean towards a cuddy. Green water over the bow is never sought but when it does happen and for whatever reason, you dont want to be helming a spoon. For the short time I had a small boat, I was enormously grateful on two occasions it had a cuddy deck. Once was being caught by a large mobo wake in the channel (Sunseeker 70 odd show boating for the boat show), once because I misread the weather and it turned while I was out.

On another note. I always found mine was limited in range. It had a range of 60nm but where I live and using the rule of thirds that didn't allow for much scope.

 

[Hot Property]

Purely my opinion, but if you are going to be using it at sea lean towards a cuddy. Green water over the bow is never sought but when it does happen and for whatever reason, you dont want to be helming a spoon. For the short time I had a small boat, I was enormously grateful on two occasions it had a cuddy deck. Once was being caught by a large mobo wake in the channel (Sunseeker 70 odd show boating for the boat show), once because I misread the weather and it turned while I was out.

On another note. I always found mine was limited in range. It had a range of 60nm but where I live and using the rule of thirds that didn't allow for much scope.

The Cap Camerat is a cuddy.... It also has the benefit of a slightly recessed foredeck for sitting or sunbathing. In my year of ownership I never had green waves over the bow and if I did the asymmetric walkaround would drain water in a flash..

 

[BruceK]

The Cap Camerat is a cuddy.... It also has the benefit of a slightly recessed foredeck for sitting or sunbathing. In my year of ownership I never had green waves over the bow and if I did the asymmetric walkaround would drain water in a flash..

I'm not aligning myself over any particular model, just pointing out a preference concern and why. This is a very poor example at a place you wouldn't want to go, but does at least to some point show what happens when an open boat turns into a spoon.

and then some people seem to get a thrill out of positively exploiting this ability

 

[Whitelighter]

Self bailing cockpit worked really well in that first video.
Quite impressed. Biggest issue was being out in unsuitable weather

 

[BruceK]

Self bailing cockpit worked really well in that first video.
Quite impressed. Biggest issue was being out in unsuitable weather

Yes I was impressed too and I am sure most sea going open boats will as well. My concern is the lower tipping point. We've all seen the one coming into Jupiter that was still partially flooded and the second round sank it within seconds. When I was hit by the big wake of the Sunseeker it was the first wave that sent me airborne and the immediate second that I submarined on.

 

[PalmaTarga]

If you can find a Cap Camera 625 WA it fits the bill nicely. Even includes a nice ski pole at the rear. 2 berth and room for loo, 2 swivelling seats. I used one in the Solent and seakeeping was good. Quite rare, £10k should secure one from around 2005 ish....

https://www.jeanneau.com/en-gb/boats/22-cap-camarat/226-cap-camarat-625-wa

That was the best of the bunch for me as a walk around boat. The space is used well as the fore deck can be transformed into a sunbed. Many of the WA's in that size range have a fore deck that can't be used as seating, and the cockpit had a full width bench seat rather than two individuals . They are quite rare outside of France though.

Returning to the OP question "what age do things like fibreglass water ingress or wiring, hydraulics or outboard reliability start becoming an issue?"

On a boat of this size, with a decent brand you wont really have any issues with the fibreglass, the wiring will be minimal and easy to fix yourself. You'll only have lights, wipers, bilge pump, chartplotter and motor electrics. Outboard reliability will be very dependant on how it's been looked after.

 

[RIDSO]

Hot Property/BruceK, I actually contemplated a Cap Camarat walk around at first and liked the usable sun bed up front. I was looking at the 5.5, in which the cuddy didn’t really seem to be big enough to overnight in (I’m 6’3). So, I thought the space would be better used for me in open deck centre console format, but with a small loo space.

I was originally looking at newer models and the price went up massively for an extra half a meter or so. But if the 625 is a boat that will still be reliable, have a lot of life left in it and be sellable when 10-15 years old like PalmaTarga says, it could be a very interesting option if I can find one outside of France.

I’d heard centre consoles being a bit more exposed to spray and definitely want a self-bailer, but never seen that spooning issue! Definitely food for thought. That Florida video looks like Haulover Inlet; there’s a Youtube sub channel dedicated to footage of different boats going in and out and it’s always pretty choppy:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsbgZ2WZ7wgyuDWuUUdmO57ixTien4wSk

 

[Hot Property]

Hot Property/BruceK, I actually contemplated a WA Cap Camarat walk around considered at first and liked the usable subbed up front. I was looking at the 5.5, in which the cuddy didn’t really seem to be big enough to overnight in (I’m 6’3). So, I thought the space would be better used for me in open deck centre console format, but with a small loo space.

I was originally looking at newer models and the price went up massively for an extra half a meter or so. But if the 625 is a boat that will still be reliable, have a lot of life left in it and be sellable when 10-15 years old like PalmaTarga says, it could be a very interesting option if I can find one outside of France.

I’d heard centre consoles being a bit more exposed to spray and definitely want a self-bailer, but never seen that spooning issue! Definitely food for thought. That Florida video looks like Haulover Inlet; there’s a Youtube sub channel dedicated to footage of different boats going in and out and it’s always pretty choppy:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsbgZ2WZ7wgyuDWuUUdmO57ixTien4wSk

You could always look in France for a 625...

Lots more to choose from and you could either tow it back yourself or use a collection service of which there are several operating in UK.

Asking price is not normally the final selling price either....

PM me if you want some photos of the one we had or to chat.

 

[BruceK]

I’d heard centre consoles being a bit more exposed to spray and definitely want a self-bailer, but never seen that spooning issue!]

Have a look at all the fast fishers on the local market and see how many variants have an open bow. Bet you can count them with your fingers. Then remember that deck space is premium for them and walk around would be highly desirable too

 

[RIDSO]

You could always look in France for a 625...

Lots more to choose from and you could either tow it back yourself or use a collection service of which there are several operating in UK.

Asking price is not normally the final selling price either....

PM me if you want some photos of the one we had or to chat.

Buying my first big boat from the South of France feels a little daunting, but useful to know about collection services. I guess that pumps the price back up, but could be worth considering if it's significantly cheaper in the first place and nothing comes up on the UK market after a while.

Thank you very much for all the advice and offer for further photos/chat. I will do a little more desk research and may well take you up on that offer if I get a little closer to pulling the trigger on a Cap Camarat!