Use of oil in heavy weather - have you ever tried it?

[Adios]

I've read about it only. With modern boats not heaving too as effectively I wonder if it would work when the boat isn't in that attitude of well controlled drift anyway. I wonder about it getting on the boat and making it incredibly dangerous and unpleasant. I also wonder if it would make that much of a difference to the bigger waves that are the threat. Their force is more than a surface issue.

Anyone actually tried it?

 

[SimonKNZ]

You mean dumping oil over the side to reduce waves? There's this thing called MARPOL now

 

[KevinV]

You mean dumping oil over the side to reduce waves? There's this thing called MARPOL now

Vegetable oil would probably have the same effect without the ecological ramifications.

Like the OP I've never been convinced by tales of this, and never felt the need to try it, but it has a long history which suggests it might just work - it would certainly lessen spray.

 

[Poignard]

Many years ago, when I did the course for the MN lifeboatman's certificate, we were shown the container of oil and told what it was for.

It was pretty calm in Tyne Dock that day so we didn't get chance to try it.

 

[Adios]

Vegetable oil would probably have the same effect without the ecological ramifications.

Like the OP I've never been convinced by tales of this, and never felt the need to try it, but it has a long history which suggests it might just work - it would certainly lessen spray.

I bet no ones tried it since it was in a book hundreds of years ago and its just a thing that's included to make up the numbers when tactics are listed in any future books. "Oh yeah, and then there's oil..."

I found a little video showing its effect. I guess with reduced friction the wind doesn't grab the water to make waves. Oil does spread thin so maybe goes a fair way and if you're drifting mostly down wind it will stay in place up wind of the boat. But even still in the sort of seas where it might be needed the fetch is miles, the waves are already full of power, its not just picked up within a hundred yards around your boat...

 

[Adios]

There was a proper gale blowing up some impressive waves around my local pier a month or so back. Next time I'll have to take some veg oil and throw it over the side. Science.

 

[Poignard]

https://escholarship.org/content/qt...77eb7950f658f80a3832c00935a667ea.pdf?t=nrjg16

Fish oil was successful in the incident described in this report.

 

[Concerto]

Oil may smooth the surface of the water but I doubt the momentum of a wave would be affected. The wave height would be reduced by only a small fraction. Once the wave height starts interfering with the sea bed, then the oil would have no effect as the reduction in depth would increase the wave height.

 

[LittleSister]

Big waves are created by wind forces acting on the water over long distances. I can't see oil spread over a few yards making any appreciable distance. You also need the oil upwind of you, and your only means of getting it there is if the leeward drift of your vessel is faster than the water surface you've put the oil on.

More problematic is the risk that you'll get oil carried by waves and spray onto the boat, rendering a difficult situation really challenging and unpleasant. (I've been on a boat that had flooded and washed engine oil around. It was VERY difficult and hazardous to try to move around the boat, and that was when it was aground, albeit with a heavy list, and not heaving around on a sea. .)

I'm open to being persuaded otherwise by someone who has actually used it and found it significantly beneficial, but otherwise file it under 'Desperate measures to consider when all else has failed and you absolutely feel the need to do something, even if it makes the situation worse'.'

P.S. I'd drafted and was just about to post the above when Poignard posted the link to that interesting and informative article. That article supports some of my suppositions, but does provide an explanation of how, contrary to my assumptions, the correct type of oil could inhibit large and breaking waves, but only if it's fish oil, not engine oil/diesel, etc., in a larger quantity than would carried on a yacht, and spread miles upstream of the vessels which had more windage and probably less effective keels (and hence leeward drift) than a modern yacht.

My conclusion - spreading any oil you'd have on a yacht is a waste of time, and risks additional hazard.

 

[Poignard]

Might be mentioned in "Heavy Weather Sailing" by Adlard Coles.

I'll have a look tomorrow.

 

[[3889]]

Big waves are created by wind forces acting on the water over long distances. I can't see oil spread over a few yards making any appreciable distance. You also need the oil upwind of you, and your only means of getting it there is if the leeward drift of your vessel is faster than the water surface you've put the oil on.

Heavy rain calms the sea quite considerably, regardless of fetch. I'm not sure if the rain effect is from the density difference of saline and fresh or the kinetic energy of the raindrops?

 

[Stemar]

IIRC, the oil reduces the surface tension and reduces the likelihood of a wave breaking. It isn't big waves that are dangerous, it's even quite small ones - no higher than the beam of your boat - breaking that will roll you, so anything that can reduce the danger of that happening must be a good idea.

Please God, may I never meet waves big enough to trip Jazzcat over, but if I do, MARPOL will be the least of my concerns.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Many years ago, when I did the course for the MN lifeboatman's certificate, we were shown the container of oil and told what it was for.

It was pretty calm in Tyne Dock that day so we didn't get chance to try it.

I did my LB ticket there. 1975 I think!

 

[Poignard]

I did my LB ticket there. 1975 I think!

I can't remember when I did it. A few years after you I think.

 

[veshengro]

I did my LB ticket there. 1975 I think!

I can't remember when I did it. A few years after you I think.

Back row forth from left...
1960 Pre sea training, Boat Handling, the lessons prepared us for later when we had our sea time in and would take the Board of Trade Lifeboat examination as described by Poignard and Biggles Wader.

Eight boys and an officer Instructor in a big old clinker built 54 man lifeboat. Each in turn took command of the boat. " Toss oars," "out oars" " Give way together" " Hold water port, give way Starboard" and so on. It was blowing about 3 off the Harbour entrance, not rough but a sharp chop in the disturbed seas off the breakwater.
Rig the Dipping Lug...sailed like a Thames Barge with her Lee Boards up...sideways!!

Part of the test was to know the rations and gear in the boat including Sea anchor and one gallon of "Whale Oil" in a metal Jerry can.
Rig the sea anchor and oil bag. Canvas bag stuffed with old cotton waste. Give it a good soaking, stab the bag with the spike on your knife and run the bag out to the sea anchor on it's line.
Stinks but it seems to flatten the sea a bit...
That Belgian Cross Channel Ferry is on a strange course, he should be going in the other Harbour entrance remarks the Instructor.. recover the Sea anchor quick!
Fred Karno's Army episode begins, boys hauling on a slippery smelly sea anchor warp covered in oil, the oil bag comes aboard still leaking oil over our number 8 working Denims, oar handles are almost impossible to grip with oily hands as we out oars and pull clear...only to find the Ferry is altering in plenty of time anyway.
Spent the rest of the day cleaning the boat and ourselves...

The actual Life Boat Examination a few years later when I had got my sea time in was dead easy in comparison and not at all smelly..
Only in a dire emergency would I ever use oil in stormy conditions to save my skin...and I'd make sure it smelled nice and was pumped out through the heads, and not from an oil bag....

 

[Adios]

https://escholarship.org/content/qt...77eb7950f658f80a3832c00935a667ea.pdf?t=nrjg16

Fish oil was successful in the incident described in this report.

Very interesting! Good to know veg oil is the thing, no use chucking diesel or engine oil over and making everyone retch.

It took 5 gallons to calm the sea long enough for a rescue. They talk about the ship drifting 1-3 KM so presumably they are saying the oil spread that far.

We don't know how long it was before the patch of oil broke up and the effect stopped. I suppose a yacht could maneuver to stay in the patch while it lasts... Might see out the worst of it for a few hours.

Maybe it is worth considering then if experiencing breakers forming. Just carry a gallon of fairy liquid for the clean up. I always have a squeezy bottle with some diluted fairy liquid when refueling. When the inevitable drop of diesel goes on the water, a little squeeze of fairy and it chases through the oil just as quickly as a the oil spread.

This is absolutely typical:

"Samuel Plimsoll, Liberal Member of Parliament for Derby, had been horrified at the continuing loss of life at sea caused by the sinking of overloaded and unseaworthy vessels in the 1860s. He struggled to get Parliament to require that maximum load lines be painted on vessels, but was opposed by shipowners, some of whom served in Parliament. Plimsoll was effective in rousing public opinion and finally the Merchant Shipping Act (1876) was passed, which made the marking of the maximum load line mandatory, but its position was at the discretion of the shipowner. The defect of this rule was strenuously pointed out by Samuel Plimsoll, but he was forced to accept this version to get anything passed by Parliament because of the power of shipowners, who were supported by Disraeli, the Tory Prime Minister. The loss of the Grecian and many other incidents finally strengthened public opinion so much that Parliament brought forward the improved Merchant Shipping Act of 1894"

Same today as it ever was.

 

[Poignard]

I did my LB ticket there. 1975 I think!

Stamp in my Discharge Book records me as obtaining a "Certificate of Efficiency as a Lifeboatman" on 27th February 1981.

Must have been bloody cold that day, but rowing around the docks kept us warm!

 

[veshengro]

St Kathrines Dock London, June 1963 for me...St Kath's !! full of posh floating folk now.

 

[BobnLesley]

Been there done that:
We deployed some sunflower oil a couple of hundred miles off Ecuador - enroute to the Marquesas - 'just to see what happens'. We were cold/bored/fed-up rather than being in a life threatening situation, but were well reefed with the windvane steering a broad reach in 20-25 knots, gusting 30. The seas were rough & bumpy - still in Humbolt Current - which we thought were sufficient to 'give us an idea' if the theory worked:
It didn't bring the sea's 'size' down - we never anticipated that it would - but we both agreed that it did significantly ease the sea's state. As someone's already noted, you need to point the boat well down wind to remain in the flattened area/get the benefit and we quickly ran out of oil (1.5 litre bottle) though looking at that video, it might well be that you could release the oil at a much slower dribble-rate than we used?
We didn't notice any oil getting washed into the cockpit - the dispensed oil reducing/stopping the odd wave that had been sneaking over the gunnels before then - but suspect that the topsides probably got well coated; we were another 4+ weeks reaching Fatu Hiva, so any there was had long gone by then.
An entertaining experiment, but would I use the technique 'for real'? Almost certainly not, on a small lightly crewed yacht, you'd be too busy doing more important things, but on something with a large crew, perhaps: Even if it didn't achieve much, the task would keep a couple of the crew members occupied and in my experience, people worry less when they've got something to do/think about.

 

[fisherman]

Oil may smooth the surface of the water but I doubt the momentum of a wave would be affected. The wave height would be reduced by only a small fraction. Once the wave height starts interfering with the sea bed, then the oil would have no effect as the reduction in depth would increase the wave height.

Bit of drift and useless info.
The disturbance to the seabed by the surface wave is quantified in an Admiralty publication of 1957. By extension, the disturbance at the surface by shoaling water will be similar.
A surface wave's effect at depth is measurable: at depth of 1/3 of wavelength, is 1/8 of wave height. At 1/2 of WL it is 1/25 of WH, and at 2/3 of WL is 1/70 of WH and 'practically extinct'.
Increased wavelengths are dangerous, normal here is about 12secs, when we get 18 secs it's a problem. Waves do about 12kts, so 18secs= 120yds WL.
I have seen nets come up from 40fm depth, rolled up and full of stones, from the effects of ground sea in a severe storm. Pots in less than 15fm are at risk in much 'normal' ground sea.
There was a storm in Sept 1983, one boat had 300 pots N of St Ives in about 12fm. He got one pot back, it was found off Newquay.