Use of inverters on boats?

[sailaboutvic]

The Victron BMS will do all of that without using external relays Vic: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-BMS-12-200-EN-NL-FR-ES-DE.pdf

The Victron BMS will do all of that without using external relays Vic: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-BMS-12-200-EN-NL-FR-ES-DE.pdf

Thank for that Paul but it looks like it more suited for drop in rather then cells .
Mine BMS is on the way , what I like about the 123smart BMS is you can see what each cells doing and different in voltage, you only need one BMS for a 2P4S there's I still farting about to wire it up but in the end I think it's worth it to be able to see what's going on and have controls over the relays , you also got current reading of what's going in and out and a combination of both too , it's not cheap at €350 but hey after reminding me earlier that I have the forum record for destroying Trojan I think the extra cost ok .

 

[Kelpie]

Given the cost of the batteries, isn't it worth spending just over £200 on a proper BMS ? The Victron one will look after the Lithium batteries, the engine battery, act as a battery combiner, protect the alternator etc

The cells I'm looking at are £400 for 280Ah. I was planning on a BMS, but just a cheap Daly one. Not that it's that cheap, though- to get one that handles the 250A+ that I need, it's about £150. The voltmeters would just be for extra info as I don't want to have to rely on the BMS.

I haven't really investigated Victron that because I assumed it would be way out of my price range. How does a £200 Victron BMS handle high current devices without using relays? Sorry for my ignorance!

 

[sailaboutvic]

The cells I'm looking at are £400 for 280Ah. I was planning on a BMS, but just a cheap Daly one. Not that it's that cheap, though- to get one that handles the 250A+ that I need, it's about £150. The voltmeters would just be for extra info as I don't want to have to rely on the BMS.

I haven't really investigated Victron that because I assumed it would be way out of my price range. How does a £200 Victron BMS handle high current devices without using relays? Sorry for my ignorance!

I'm just to blame but this thread as gone all over the place so sorry to the OP .
Kelpie if your saying the cells your looking at buying are £400 per cell for 280Ah £1600 a bank , have you seen my posting , I'm brought 8x200 cells for 1350 euros and they coming from Germany supplier not china so you not waiting 2months for them and there are A grade Calb Cells , plus if there a problem it be much easier to deal with . Well I hoping there no problem .

 

[Kelpie]

I'm just to blame but this thread as gone all over the place so sorry to the OP .
Kelpie if your saying the cells your looking at buying are £400 per cell for 280Ah £1600 a bank , have you seen my posting , I'm brought 8x200 cells for 1350 euros and they coming from Germany supplier not china so you not waiting 2months for them and there are A grade Calb Cells , plus if there a problem it be much easier to deal with . Well I hoping there no problem .

Sorry I was a bit vague, £400 for 4 cells

 

[sailaboutvic]

Sorry I was a bit vague, £400 for 4 cells

There are cheap aluminium cells ?

 

[Pete7]

The cells I'm looking at are £400 for 280Ah. I was planning on a BMS, but just a cheap Daly one. Not that it's that cheap, though- to get one that handles the 250A+ that I need, it's about £150. The voltmeters would just be for extra info as I don't want to have to rely on the BMS.

I haven't really investigated Victron that because I assumed it would be way out of my price range. How does a £200 Victron BMS handle high current devices without using relays? Sorry for my ignorance!

No idea how the Victron would work because it seems to be only suited to their batteries using a comms wire, perhaps Paul can explain.

Meanwhile, I watched Will Prowse review this BMS which sub £150 even if you end up with import duties from Canada.

ElectroDacus

I was looking for a Daly which could control two contactors to separate the charge and load on to different bus bars. Only couldn't find one on Aliexpress and gave up, perhaps not looking hard enough.

Pete

 

[Kelpie]

There are cheap aluminium cells ?

Aluminium, yes. About as cheap as you can get but plenty of good reports about them from the DIY Solar forum.

 

[Kelpie]

No idea how the Victron would work because it seems to be only suited to their batteries using a comms wire, perhaps Paul can explain.

Meanwhile, I watched Will Prowse review this BMS which sub £150 even if you end up with import duties from Canada.

ElectroDacus

I was looking for a Daly which could control two contactors to separate the charge and load on to different bus bars. Only couldn't find one on Aliexpress and gave up, perhaps not looking hard enough.

Pete

I'm sure I've seen Daly BMS with separate ports, if that's what you mean. When I get back on the laptop I'll have a look.

 

[PaulRainbow]

No idea how the Victron would work because it seems to be only suited to their batteries using a comms wire, perhaps Paul can explain.

With all the talk about Victron and no mention of the batteries being used i'd failed to consider they might not be Victron (a bit of tunnel vision on my part), so thanks for that reminder Pete.

Because of the thread drift back and forth and information only being posted ad hoc, it might make more sense and be easier to keep track of what's actually going on if we had a new thread from the guys fitting Lithium (maybe a thread each). Kelpie and Vic seem to be fitting somewhat different systems and it would, i'm sure, be useful to read exactly what is is they are fitting and how it all comes together in real life.

 

[Kelpie]

No idea how the Victron would work because it seems to be only suited to their batteries using a comms wire, perhaps Paul can explain.

Meanwhile, I watched Will Prowse review this BMS which sub £150 even if you end up with import duties from Canada.

ElectroDacus

I was looking for a Daly which could control two contactors to separate the charge and load on to different bus bars. Only couldn't find one on Aliexpress and gave up, perhaps not looking hard enough.

Pete

US $38.25 15% OFF|Daly bms 3.2V 4s 80A 120A 200A 300A 500A LiFepo4 18650 BMS PCM Battery With Balance For lili ion Lipo Battery Cell Pack Module|Battery Accessories| - AliExpress

Might depend on what device/browser you are using, but on a Windows laptop this shows me different options for separate and common port.

 

[Kelpie]

With all the talk about Victron and no mention of the batteries being used i'd failed to consider they might not be Victron (a bit of tunnel vision on my part), so thanks for that reminder Pete.

Because of the thread drift back and forth and information only being posted ad hoc, it might make more sense and be easier to keep track of what's actually going on if we had a new thread from the guys fitting Lithium (maybe a thread each). Kelpie and Vic seem to be fitting somewhat different systems and it would, i'm sure, be useful to read exactly what is is they are fitting and how it all comes together in real life.

Yes we do seem to have scared the OP away, apologies for being part of that!

I will start a thread on my lithium project closer to the time, right now it seems like a bad time to be buying anything internationally. I'll have to wait for the dust to settle with Brexit. Contrary to what people might assume, it is directly affecting trade between China and the UK, in some cases tripling the already high shipping costs; other sellers are simply refusing to send anything here.

 

[vas]

to keep the OT Kelpie have you mentioned where you got the batteries for 400quid?
Any pointers welcomed (or did you mention that in Poey thread?)

 

[Kelpie]

to keep the OT Kelpie have you mentioned where you got the batteries for 400quid?
Any pointers welcomed (or did you mention that in Poey thread?)

Haven't actually bought them yet. The seller is called Shenzen Basen, on Alibaba: 3.2v 280ah Batteries Cell Prismatic Plate Lithium Ion Battery Lifepo4 280ah - Buy Rechargeable Lifepo4 Battery,Prismatic Lifepo4 Battery,Lifepo4 280ah Product on Alibaba.com
A few weeks ago I was quoted a total cost delivered to the UK of £400 including UK VAT and a small tarrif. Since then, exchange rates might have altered this slightly, and annoyingly the shipping cost for UK has changed from c.£100 to "contact seller to negotiate". Other suppliers have told me that this is because we are no longer in the EU. I have emailed Shenzen Basen to see what the new cost will be.

The seller has a good reputation on the DIY Solar forum, to date I have not encountered anybody with a bad experience.

Obviously these cells are aluminium cased, and unlikely to be as well matched/balanced as the more expensive ones. But at £400/280ah/12v they are significantly cheaper per useable Ah than a Trojan T105. My total installed cost will be slightly higher, lots of variables there and if you aren't running anything at a high current the installed cost could be kept very low. So they don't have to be the best cells in the world, they just have to offer better performance and lifespan than a set of Trojans for them to worth a punt.

 

[vas]

I'll pass, for the 8 I need, it's 600USD+240 shipping but no customs duties (for GR).
With the guys we have here and based on past experience it's at least another 300euro min :-(
Probably better off buying from PL or somewhere else inside the EU, I'll have to wait not in a great hurry...

 

[sailaboutvic]

I'll pass, for the 8 I need, it's 600USD+240 shipping but no customs duties (for GR).
With the guys we have here and based on past experience it's at least another 300euro min :-(
Probably better off buying from PL or somewhere else inside the EU, I'll have to wait not in a great hurry...

Another thing to be awhere off is agent fee , some really pile it on , if you can get them DDP best to go that way .
I started off with cells from china DDP €1000 , then two days after paying for them I get told they now won't deliver to the part of Italy I'm in as it remote every tho I ask three times before hand about delivery to my post code and three times they say it's find , I give Alibaba there due although they said it be 15 days before I get a refund , it was back within five days , but I did lost the credit card fee , but hey that's life , paying 350 euros more now for similar batteries but if there a problem or one turn up damage at less it be much easier to deal with the problem .

 

[Kelpie]

Alibaba seller has got back to me:

"sorry we can’t send to UK now, can we talk about this order in the new year? "

Hopefully it's just a temporary situation due to Brexit.