USA banning copper-based antifouling

JumbleDuck said:
Copper dioxide contains copper shock horror probe.

cf "tin-based antifouling" which did not contain metallic tin and "lead paint" which did not contain metallic lead.
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I'm not sure Copper Dioxide (aka Copper Peroxide) would be the best thing to use for antifouling....

Apologies if I had a woosh moment...
 
I can understand the banning of anything that leaches out, so soft anti-fouls are always going to be a target because if they work they will be toxic. What I don't understand is why something that does not leach, like copper coat would be banned.
 
Seven Spades said:
I can understand the banning of anything that leaches out, so soft anti-fouls are always going to be a target because if they work they will be toxic. What I don't understand is why something that does not leach, like copper coat would be banned.
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For the third time, if coppercoat doesn't leech, why does it only last ten years?
 
I am a Granola eating, Red neck, Hippy, Birdwatcher, Whale Watcher, Fisherman, Anti logging, Anti Trophy Hunting,Green Voting, Gulf Islander with a wood burning stove.
Most of my friends are hunters, ex loggers and ex fisherman.

Well I guess I best go and get my boats bum painted before the new year.
Currently I can get much more toxic paint in a Washington boat yard than I can get in a BC Boat yard.
Or I can just go get a compatible abrasive bucket of paint and put it on next spring. Its a PITA. But I like my nice environment. I prefer it stays nice.
As an Apex predator. I prefer my seafood to be Drug, Dioxin, PCB and Heavy Metal Free. Its probably way to late to make a difference now. For future generations maybe not?
My boat and I will get over it. Or at least live with it.

If you really want to help get rid of toxins from the marine environment get rid of fish farms. :)

PS I like Washington, Pot is Legal and they are Anti Trump and his BS. Although I kind of have a bone to pick with the Sounders.
I have always found their officials quite friendly and helpful. Except when I showed up in Friday Harbour for clearance during Monday night football. He was grumpy.
 
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How many litres of coppercoat, and how many kg of Cu, does a typical yacht use over ten years?
And how does this compare to annual eroding antifoul use?
 
JumbleDuck said:
For the third time, if coppercoat doesn't leech, why does it only last ten years?
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The reason it's your third time of asking is that the answer is so obvious that everyone thinks that you're joking.

Assuming that you're not (which is, in itself, rather worrying) is that the copper and the epoxy do leach away but very slowly. And certainly very slowly compared to conventional antifoul.

It's probably difficult to find any metal that doesn't slowly vanish (20 years rather than 10) in seawater .... gold perhaps? ;)

Richard
 
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RichardS said:
Assuming that you're not (which is, in itself, rather worrying) is that the copper and the epoxy do leach away but very slowly. And certainly very slowly compared to conventional antifoul.
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OK, so let's see some figures. If coppercoat works by leeching copper into the sea, so does that compare with the rate at which conventional antifouling leeches copper into the sea?
 
JumbleDuck said:
For the third time, if coppercoat doesn't leech, why does it only last ten years?
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If people leave it alone it lasts a lot more than ten years. There are boats that have had it working well for 20 years. A myth has arisen that it needs to be abraded every year, which of course simply removes the copper oxide that is really the antifouling agent, exposing fresh copper that then needs to re-oxidise. Almost the same mechanism as corrosive wear that can cut through a chain in one year.
 
bozlite said:
No, that what I made of it, too. I think the newspaper quoted by the OP must have misinterpreted or sensationalised the implications. There certainly don't seem to be implications for visiting boats (nor, indeed, for boats already there - until they want to buy some antifoul).
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I think that is the case. A bit of journalistic license going on perhaps?
 
JumbleDuck said:
OK, so let's see some figures. If coppercoat works by leeching copper into the sea, so does that compare with the rate at which conventional antifouling leeches copper into the sea?
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OK. I'm guessing a bit here, as I didn't note the numbers. But I think we applied around 14kg of copper when we copper-coated Capricious. That will last at least 10 years (if it doesn't, I'll be getting back to AMC!) and in British waters probably more like 15-20 years (AMC reckon 10 years in tropical waters requiring regular abrasion, which as others have pointed out isn't necessary in Uk waters, and AMC certainly say they have customers who have had it last 15-20 years).

If it lasts 10 years, then that's (crudely) 1400 grams loss per year. However, that's assuming a) that after 10 years there's nothing left on the hull and b) that it only lasts 10 years (see above). Taking these into account suggests that 700 grams/year is a likely release rate; perhaps less.

This paper suggests a rate of 8.2 micrograms of copper per square cm per day as a typical rate of release from a pleasure boat. That's pretty close to 30 grams per square metre per year. Back to guessing - what's the underwater area of a Moody 31? OK, call it 10m long and 3.2 m wide, so 30 square metres is in the right ball-park. Coppercoat's undewater area calculator agrees with me - ir makes it 28 square metres! I make it something in the region of 900 grams per year of copper released from conventional antifouling.

So on these figures, which are admittedly crude, Coppercoat releases less copper than conventional antifouling, though not vastly less.
 
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I can remember when any fule new..

Smoking was good for you......
We will all freeze to death if you impose smoke free zones
Wearing seatbelts in a car definately increased your chances of dying in a crash...
Removing lead from petrol would cause all cars to sieze up within seconds and cause financial chaos to residual values.
Asbestos......no worries employee , even when your wife dies as result of washing your work overalls.
Laws against air pollution wilfully ignored to avoid upsetting voters...surely not !

In each and every case we managed to ignore the naysayers and progress :)
 
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Crazy world we live in.

Container ships and oil tankers etc are known to be the worst polluters, but the USA invades countries for oil, so they will hardly do anything about large shipping.

The USA does insist on lower SAR ratings for mobile 'phones than us Brits though, so that is a good thing.
 
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