Urgent Help need - Navigation Lights Question

[Vascojc]

Re: Tri colour vs. stern and side lights

Why the debate?

Deck level sidelights and sternlight (one switch)
Plus:
Masthead red over green all round if sailing (one switch)
or Steaming light if motoring. (one switch)

This obviates the problems with other vessels being able to see high/low lights as you have both, and you are fully complying with the regs.(Rule 25)

The only problem, can I find a set of all round red/green lights in the chandlers?

 

[VicS]

Re: Your proposed switching arrangements

That sounds perfectly adequate but gives no protection against illegal combinations.

On my boat i have:

Switch 1
an on/of switch which feeds the common terminal of:-

Switch 2
a change over (SPDT) switch which feeds the tricolour when up and the side and stern lights when down. Also when down it feeds:-

Switch 3
an on/off switch which feeds the "steaming" light.

I could have combined swtches 1 & 2 by using a double throw switch with a centre-off position but I feel that the arrangement I have makes operation just a bit more simple. At least when all are up everything is off.

 

[geoffatstanpit]

I have what I think is the simplest legal system - just 2 switches!

The lights are a tricolour and all-round white at the masthead fed by a 3-pin plug and 3-core cable, and a bicolour on the pulpit.

The switches are one (single pole) marked "Nav Lights" which sends power to the second switch (2-pole changeover) marked "Power" and "Sail".

With the "nav" switch off nothing is on.

With the nav on and the changeover at power the all round white and pulpit are on. With the changeover at sail, only the tricolour masthead is on.

Geoff

 

[philip_stevens]

Fit a 5 (or 6) position rotary switch.
pos 1 - off
Pos 2 - sail low - bow and stern light
pos 3 - sail high - masthead tricolour light
pos 4 - motor - bow, stern and steaming lights
pos 5 - anchor - all round masthead anchor light
(pos 6 - not used)

An example from Radio Spares - 5 position 257-9659 £14.48 + VAT

This is the arrangement I fitted on my previous boat, and it made all switching positions legal.

I also made a mimic panel to ensure I was able to see what position I had selected.

regards,
Philip

 

[Joe_Cole]

Re: Tri colour vs. stern and side lights

[ QUOTE ]


The only problem, can I find a set of all round red/green lights in the chandlers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are all round red and green lights legal?

 

[Thistle]

Re: Tri colour vs. stern and side lights

Yes. See IRPCS Rule 25c

"Rule 25
Sailing vessels underway and vessels under oars.

(a) A sailing vessel underway shall exhibit:

(i) sidelights;

(i) a sternlight.

(b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20 metres in length the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen.

(c) A sailing vessel underway may, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit at or near the top of the mast, where they can best be seen, two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being red and the lower green, but these lights shall not be exhibited in conjunction with the combined lantern permitted by paragraph (b) of this Rule.
..."

 

[Dipper]

Re: Tri colour vs. stern and side lights

But this defeats the objective of having a tri-colour masthead light which uses a single bulb to light all three lenses.

With the all round red and all round green you have two bulbs but this is ‘in addition to’ the sidelights (or bicolour) and stern light which adds up to a total of four (with bicolour) or five (separate side lights) bulbs. That’s quite a current drain whilst under sail.

Although the wording ‘in addition to’ may possibly be interpreted as another stand-alone light configuration, the all round red and green can’t be used on their own as they provide no information whatever regarding the orientation of the vessel. Another vessel would be unable to work out whether she had right of way or not.

 

[Joe_Cole]

Re: Tri colour vs. stern and side lights

Well, well, well. Always something new to learn with this boating lark!
I've never seen this configuration, but when I do I'll be able to say "Of course its legal. Don't you know your Col Regs? /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[VicS]

Re: All round red and green lights

The regs are in my opinion unambiguous about the optional use of all round red and green lights.

They are normally used by large sailing vessels as the concession to combine side and stern lights in a single tri-colour is limited to vessels under 20m. That probably explains why the yottie chandlers don't stock them.

In practice to achieve all round visibility each would have to consist of two lanterns, one each side of the mast so that means even more power requiered.

 

[Thistle]

Re: All round red and green lights

[ QUOTE ]
In practice to achieve all round visibility each would have to consist of two lanterns, one each side of the mast so that means even more power requiered.

[/ QUOTE ]
No; the ones I've seen have been designed like the masthead tricolours: they sit on top of the mast and can be seen all-round as required. I do agree, though, that as an addition to sidelights, they represent a further drain on batteries (but this may be more important on vessels over 20m /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.)

Can't, for the life of me, remember where they've been advertised.

 

[Dipper]

Re: All round red and green lights

Aqua Signal and Hella Marine both make all round red and all round green with various options for mounting including hoisted. I haven’t seen a combined one-on-top-of-the-other version for sale although 20 years ago I found an all round red, all round green and all round white combined in the same frame with the lenses (minus the bulb sockets) in the attic of my first house. I’ve still got it in my current attic and have always though it would be nice to have it converted as an outside light for the house. Presumably this came off a larger sailing vessel.

 

[Vascojc]

Re: Tri colour vs. stern and side lights

[ QUOTE ]
Well, well, well. Always something new to learn with this boating lark!
I've never seen this configuration, but when I do I'll be able to say "Of course its legal. Don't you know your Col Regs? /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Which is the whole point really - why do you need loads of switches if you know what you should display at any particular time?

But for all the switching experts - can you produce a switch for the motor vehicle manufacturers that only allows drivers to display fog lights when it is foggy!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Joe_Cole]

Re: All round red and green lights

[ QUOTE ]
I’ve still got it in my current attic and have always though it would be nice to have it converted as an outside light for the house. Presumably this came off a larger sailing vessel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Careful, you'll get confused when you come back home from a session at the pub..............."Now, wissh way ish that house moving?"

 

[colvic987]

if you wish to have the nav lights and decklights on one switch then lookup
aqua signal navswitch. and all your switching probs should be solved, don't know the price, but might be a solution for you...

 

[VicS]

Re: All round red and green lights

I've been looking in the regs to see if a vertical separation is specified for the red/green lights.

Where their use is first sanctioned it simply says "at or near the top of the mast, where they can best be seen". They are not specifically mentioned in Annex I 2, which covers the vertical positioning and spacing of lights. If it is intended that paragraph (i) should apply then they should be 2metres apart (on vessels over 20 metres). That would be a pretty cumbersome bit of kit if all in one unit.

 

[roger]

Its quite possible to buy a suitable multipoles multiway rotary switch and wire it u so that only the legal combinations are possible. This would be complicated to set up but be very easy to use.
There is or was a commercial product that did just that.
If you follow the DIY route, make sure the switch you buy has adequate current capacity.

 

[Dipper]

The RRP for the Aqua Signal switch is £131.02. Ouch! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[halcyon]

You only need 4 switches. 2 x single pole changeover, 2 x single pole on/off

bi-light change-over switch, feed power to centre terminal. connect normally closed terminal to centre terminal of tr-light switch ( change-over), normally open termial to bi-light ( deck level lights)and also to the centre terminal of steaming light switch.

steaming light switch on/off connect normally open terminal to steaming light.

tr-light switch, change -over, normally closed terminal to centre terminal on anchor light switch, normally open terminal to tri-light.

anchor light switch, on/off connect normally open terminal to anchor light.

Now, swich on bi-colour, tri-light and anchor light isolated, steaming light switch has power feed.

With bi-light switched off, power is supplied to tri-light, select tri-light and anchor light isolated.

Anchor light can only be selected with all others off.

Think thats about right, for 2300hrs and a bottle of red.



Brian

 

[VicS]

And another product, possibly that mentioned by Roger, was £200 quite some years back. I don't think I saw it advertised a second time!

A word of caution about using rotary switches. Those available from electronic component suppliers generally do not have a sufficiently high current rating. I'm sure the one suggested by Philip Stevens from RS would be Ok in this respect but I'm not sure how you would wire it up to control all the lights we've been talking about. I think you would need at least a two pole switch, even more if you included an allround white light.

 

[colvic987]

woody, stick to your three switch solution, alot cheaper than the one i quoted, unless you have money to burn.. (didn't think it would be that much)...