Updating the VHF, probably to Garmin?

[scubaman]

We have planned to take the boat to the sea next summer and to tick an item on the safety check list I'm considering swapping my old non-DSC Shipmate into something more modern and was hoping to get your views on the matter.

Thing is that while I like my gadgets, I just can't justify to myself a whole nav gear upgrade when the old Raymarine RL80c does what is needed well enough and especially when iPad's supplement a plotter so well. As far as I can tell, the plotter gives out the correct NMEA-sentences for DSC, so hooking it up with a dsc enabled VHF should be ok?

Also, I would like to avoid running new cables to the fly as it seems like a bit of a nightmare and I already have plenty of time consuming tasks on my to-do list. I can partly get around this by using a wireless second handset, but the power is the issue. The old Shipmate has a single, maybe 7 mm wide flat wire going up, which takes power, voice and commands to the second station so I wonder if I could cheat and use this?

There seem to be a few manufacturers with wireless handsets (Navicom, Simrad, maybe others) but based on my rigorous study of the spec sheets and mostly on looks, I'm favouring Garmin at the moment.

The plan is to fit a VHF 200i on the lower helm along with a GWH20 wireless hub and then a GHS20i on the fly.

Providing I find a workable way of getting the power for the charger/cradle for the GHS20i on the flybridge, does anybody know if it is possible to auto-power on the unit so that when I switch on the VHF from the main 12V -panel, also the handset turns on? The VHF 200i has an auto-power-on –option, but I didn’t find an answer to this from the online manuals.

There is a built-in speaker on the GHS20i and I assume it’s loud enough to be heard also under way on it’s cradle without a separate speaker, but could anyone confirm this?

Does anybody see any other problems with what I've planned, any other suggestions for the make or something else that I've missed?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[MapisM]

Sorry K, I can't help you with Garmin VHFs 'cause I've only played with one for a few minutes.
Generally speaking, ICOM radios are those which I've always found more convenient to use, and well built too, but that's me of course.

Anyway, I was wondering if your existing non-DSC Shipmate is by chance the RS8300?
If it is, you might consider looking for an RS8400, which is exactly the same equipment (hence with the advantage of using the same cradles and cables), but with the GPS interface and the DSC distress call capability.
It's rather old now (in fact, I'm not even sure you can find a new one still around), and doesn't have all the bells and whistles of more modern radios, but it does work well.
That's what I've got in my boat: not far from being 20 years old, and still working flawlessly...

 

[scubaman]

Thanks P, that's a good tip but they seem to be hard to come by. There is a one on the German ebay but with only a single handset and a hefty price tag... I'll do some more searching.

 

[superheat6k]

The Furuno Radio Ocean RO800 recommended and at £200 includes an excellent AIS engine, no splitter or second aerial required, and a remote mike is available.

Let me know if you want to look at the manual.

 

[nigelmercier]

Two words: Standard Horizon.

 

[jfm]

K, I have the wireless Garmin on the flybridge on Match 2 so I've used it for a season. Some comments:

1. The charger cradle needs 12v but the current is something tiny like 1 amp so the lightweight twin core cable you have will be fine. (Remeber, you can use BOTH cores for +12v and just pick up another earth on the flybridge if there is an earth with enough spare current capacity, but I doubt this will be necessary)

2. The RL80CRC will talk the correct nmea0183 sentences.

3. The flybridge handset does not auto power on when you turn on the lower helm VHF set. You have to switch it on using the buttom on the handset, and then press "clear" on the handset to clear the lawyer's liability warning screen. If you turn off the 12v supply to the cradle, the handset stays on, then flattens the battery

4. The speaker on the wireless handset is only just ok. I have the bigger speaker in the dashboard too and kinda feel you "need" this, sort of. But it would be hard to fit so I think it makes sense to try to live with the handset speaker. You'll certainly hear the noise thru the little handset speaker, but maybe not figure out what the caller is saying!

5. I'm not 100% convinced by the wireless. A few times it seems to have dropped the link. I have made calls to the port and got no reply. Then if I go downstairs and call again I get a reply. I have a few suspicions that the wireless "bond" isn't strong. Perhaps on 10% of the times I use it

6. The general build quality, and the design of the menus and controls, are very good. The rotary knob controller is very good. Overall I'm pleased with it except as I say the wireless link has let me down a few times I think. (You never know for sure - maybe the other person didn't want to answer!)

 

[Piers]

+1 for ICOM.

 

[scubaman]

K, I have the wireless Garmin on the flybridge on Match 2 so I've used it for a season. Some comments:

1. The charger cradle needs 12v but the current is something tiny like 1 amp so the lightweight twin core cable you have will be fine. (Remeber, you can use BOTH cores for +12v and just pick up another earth on the flybridge if there is an earth with enough spare current capacity, but I doubt this will be necessary)

2. The RL80CRC will talk the correct nmea0183 sentences.

3. The flybridge handset does not auto power on when you turn on the lower helm VHF set. You have to switch it on using the buttom on the handset, and then press "clear" on the handset to clear the lawyer's liability warning screen. If you turn off the 12v supply to the cradle, the handset stays on, then flattens the battery

4. The speaker on the wireless handset is only just ok. I have the bigger speaker in the dashboard too and kinda feel you "need" this, sort of. But it would be hard to fit so I think it makes sense to try to live with the handset speaker. You'll certainly hear the noise thru the little handset speaker, but maybe not figure out what the caller is saying!

5. I'm not 100% convinced by the wireless. A few times it seems to have dropped the link. I have made calls to the port and got no reply. Then if I go downstairs and call again I get a reply. I have a few suspicions that the wireless "bond" isn't strong. Perhaps on 10% of the times I use it

6. The general build quality, and the design of the menus and controls, are very good. The rotary knob controller is very good. Overall I'm pleased with it except as I say the wireless link has let me down a few times I think. (You never know for sure - maybe the other person didn't want to answer!)

Many thanks J, you have given me just the info I was looking for and something to think about. Shame about the wireless link, I can see why there is a "clear" to be pressed. With the few caveats it looks like this would be an easy way to do the upgrade, though.

AFAIK, Garmin uses Bluetooth for the wireless connection which still tends to cause headaches on some applications.

Thank you Superheat for your offer. I'll review my options once more and try to get my hands on these things on the upcoming Helsinki show.

 

[Monique]

Two words: Standard Horizon.

Make it 4 words!

 

[scubaman]

Just a few further thoughts on this. There is already an external speaker on the fly for the Shipmate. I could most probably use that and it's existing wires (which are separate to the flat wire going to the handset I mentioned earlier) as an external speaker to Garmin as well. Or maybe also replace the speaker with the Garmin one.

For the auto power-on/off I see no technical reason why there couldn't be a selectable option to leave the bluetooth on whenever the handset is on it's cradle and it's charging. This way it could automatically make the connection to the base station and turn itself on once the connection succeeds. Likewise when the base station is turned off from the VHF's power button, before powering off it could tell the handset to do the same. When the handset is on it's cradle but there is no 12v AND there is no response via bluetooth from the base station, it could also automatically power itself off.

 

[scubaman]

An update on this.

I went and bought the Garmin set from the Helsinki boat show. Garmin VHF200i + GHS20 bundle (wireless base station + wireless 2nd station handset) for €599,-.

The installation was pretty easy as one would have expected. I spotted an extra wire going up to the flybridge which meant I didn't have to play around with the ultra thin shipmate leads and the existing speakers came into good use to help with the limited speaker volume on the wireless handset (as discussed above).

Only hick-up was that I couldn't find the Raymarine nmea -out cable that would have gone into the socket on the back of the plotter. Apparently these are hard to come by as they are not in production any more. Fortunately, the autopilot has nmea out and should put out the correct sentences for the DSC, so it should be ok.

Unfortunately Saimaa VTS is only back in work from the beginning of April so I was unable to do a proper test, but it worked fine with the handheld VHF I have .

I decided to place it on the right as the space left to the plotter is perfect for the iPad. Also, if I decide to upgrade the nav kit some day, there is room ready for a wider display.

 

[jfm]

Good going - nice job
I see you have the new black Garmin. Garmin kindly upgraded my grey VHF handsets to black to now I have loads of (grey) spares including a wireless!

I'll be interested to hear how reliable your wireless connection is, when you start using this in the season

if I decide to upgrade the nav kit some day

If you do that, you can buy new aluminium panels from Axoncomponents.com who made them OEM. They still have the CAD files. Then you can reorganise the dash any way you want (although your RL80CRC has been cut into the white GRP, beyond the Axon panel, so you'd need to get the GRP rebuilt, but that is quite easy to get done if you have a good GRP guy available)

 

[scubaman]

Good going - nice job
I see you have the new black Garmin. Garmin kindly upgraded my grey VHF handsets to black to now I have loads of (grey) spares including a wireless!

I'll be interested to hear how reliable your wireless connection is, when you start using this in the season


If you do that, you can buy new aluminium panels from Axoncomponents.com who made them OEM. They still have the CAD files. Then you can reorganise the dash any way you want (although your RL80CRC has been cut into the white GRP, beyond the Axon panel, so you'd need to get the GRP rebuilt, but that is quite easy to get done if you have a good GRP guy available)

Thanks, that's useful info re Axon as any further suffling of the gear will probably mean a new panel. I'm still trying to make my mind up as to what to do with the Shipmate cradle as removing it would leave ugly screw holes but it's not exactly pretty as it is... Also the ali panel one on the fly is slightly corroded so might look into replacing them at some point.

I spoke to the Garmin guys at the show about the wireless link and they mentioned that there has been one software update some time ago. Since you also have black, I assume yours is of the latest version. Mine is 2.5 -something, iirc.

I'll probably be using the intercom quite a lot so that should bring up any problems with the link.

 

[jfm]

Thanks, that's useful info re Axon as any further suffling of the gear will probably mean a new panel. I'm still trying to make my mind up as to what to do with the Shipmate cradle as removing it would leave ugly screw holes but it's not exactly pretty as it is... Also the ali panel one on the fly is slightly corroded so might look into replacing them at some point.

I spoke to the Garmin guys at the show about the wireless link and they mentioned that there has been one software update some time ago. Since you also have black, I assume yours is of the latest version. Mine is 2.5 -something, iirc.

I'll probably be using the intercom quite a lot so that should bring up any problems with the link.

Axon can supply a panel to replace the one with the shipmate cradle but fitting it obviously involves undoing the steering hydraulics, yuk. How about these for now, or something similar? http://www.componentforce.co.uk/category/82/barbed-fir-tree-plugs

Thanks for the info on software. I'm guessing the s/ware is in the base station, which in my case is a "grey era" unit from 18 months ago. I'll update it - I need to do a general Garmin software update anyhow because I'm going to try the "Garmin Helm" iPad app which will repeat my 8000 plotters onto iPads

 

[scubaman]

Axon can supply a panel to replace the one with the shipmate cradle but fitting it obviously involves undoing the steering hydraulics, yuk. How about these for now, or something similar? http://www.componentforce.co.uk/category/82/barbed-fir-tree-plugs

Thanks for the info on software. I'm guessing the s/ware is in the base station, which in my case is a "grey era" unit from 18 months ago. I'll update it - I need to do a general Garmin software update anyhow because I'm going to try the "Garmin Helm" iPad app which will repeat my 8000 plotters onto iPads

The Shipmate cradle is well fastened with eight screws, no less, but those would do the trick for now. Thanks!

This link suggests that the VHF200/300 has to be updated before the GHS20 can be used (otherwise a DSC distress call is dispatched!!!) so I'm assuming this is the update the local Garmin guy was referring to and it's not relevant here. Anyway, quick googling didn't find any updates for these devices from the Garmin site.

http://support.garmin.com/support/searchSupport/case.faces?supportPage=GHS%2020&caseId={02b2d0f0-d996-11e0-cf56-000000000000}&locale=en_US

It would be interesting to hear if you do come across any suitable updates whilst doing the general update.