goochie
Well-Known Member
Navtex?
Update
- Thread starter Hurricane
- Start date
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Navtex?
[/ QUOTE ]
I have given this some thought but we are taking the boat to the Med and I believe that the Navtex coverage is poor so no, the Aerial isnt for Navtex - if thats what you were offering.
Navtex?
[/ QUOTE ]
I have given this some thought but we are taking the boat to the Med and I believe that the Navtex coverage is poor so no, the Aerial isnt for Navtex - if thats what you were offering.
Nautorius
Well-Known Member
Wow,
I am just wiring up my 19ft Day boat,.......and that is difficult! Looks amazing and very neat. The electronics would blow my simple mind. Yours is going to be one serious piece of kit!
Great pics, more please and no idea what the aerial is!
Cheers
paul /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I am just wiring up my 19ft Day boat,.......and that is difficult! Looks amazing and very neat. The electronics would blow my simple mind. Yours is going to be one serious piece of kit!
Great pics, more please and no idea what the aerial is!
Cheers
paul /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
oceanfroggie
Well-Known Member
Great post, v interesting. A pal of mine once called his new boat a platform for mounting technology. She's a beaut, and best of luck with her.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Rick
I have very little experience in this area of redundancy and systems.
But my little brain has been saying for a long time to have something COMPLETELY separate backung up the main system. COMPLETELY means to me a completely different design.
Now, in the past, I've had a laptop running my favourite Memory-Map software and COMPLETELY different charts (in case the ships charts are wrong for example). The laptop had absolutely nothing to do with any of the boat's systems and has worked really well. So well that I now want to make it more permanent - laptop displays arent really sunlight viewable for example.
So, moving on to your suggestion - connecting a series of DC/DC converters together just integrates ths system even more.
What happens if a DC/DC converter fails and drags down its output - thus causing the working ones to effectively fail as well.
Also if one of the DC/DC converters DOES fail and the others "take over" - how would you know - only until the next one fails. I think I'd rather have my main system go completely down and work of a complete backup (even if its paper and a compass). That way, I know that something's failed and can fix it later. Trying to fix things at sea, of course, is a no no.
So, I have been working to keeping the PC System completely separate and feeding it to other monitors if the Raymarine kit should fail but I have another dilemma - the PC needs a GPS feed and the temptation is to pick it up from the Raymarine NMEA - I'm planning to connect the PC output to the GPMs anyway in order to upload tracks and waypoints etc so the piece of wire will be in place anyway. I was thinking of having a flying lead to connect in an emergency to my hand held GPS that I keep in the grab bag.
Anyway, as I said - I have very little experience in system redundancy.
I read, in one of the current mags an article on missuse of the GPS plotter that reminded me of an incident that happened to us on a passage from Guernsey to Sant Quay Portrieux. I set a route from St Peter Port which had a long leg to a waypoint north west of the rocks at Ile Harbour. The route then turned about 90 degrees to run down the channel for about 2 miles between the rocks and the mainland before entering the marina. The frightening thing was that I didnt realise that I'd pressed the "waypoint advance" button by mistake way back at Guernsey and the plotter had effectively byepassed the first waypoint NW of Ils Harbour. The effect was that the long leg was wrong and that we would have run over the rocks on a route that was now heading straight towards the harbour entrance. I dont know whether I've made this example very clear but I think it is more serious that the example in the magazine.
As is happened, my Memory-Map software running on the laptop told me that something was wrong - I do all my planning on the PC so I had the correct route and the actual track on laptop and it was obvious what had happened.
So with this example, I believe that you have to be a bit more strategic in putting back up systems in place - an absolutely complete backup must be better even if it isnt connected to the auto pilot etc.
And of course, we are always being told to keep the paper systems going as well.
I have very little experience in this area of redundancy and systems.
But my little brain has been saying for a long time to have something COMPLETELY separate backung up the main system. COMPLETELY means to me a completely different design.
Now, in the past, I've had a laptop running my favourite Memory-Map software and COMPLETELY different charts (in case the ships charts are wrong for example). The laptop had absolutely nothing to do with any of the boat's systems and has worked really well. So well that I now want to make it more permanent - laptop displays arent really sunlight viewable for example.
So, moving on to your suggestion - connecting a series of DC/DC converters together just integrates ths system even more.
What happens if a DC/DC converter fails and drags down its output - thus causing the working ones to effectively fail as well.
Also if one of the DC/DC converters DOES fail and the others "take over" - how would you know - only until the next one fails. I think I'd rather have my main system go completely down and work of a complete backup (even if its paper and a compass). That way, I know that something's failed and can fix it later. Trying to fix things at sea, of course, is a no no.
So, I have been working to keeping the PC System completely separate and feeding it to other monitors if the Raymarine kit should fail but I have another dilemma - the PC needs a GPS feed and the temptation is to pick it up from the Raymarine NMEA - I'm planning to connect the PC output to the GPMs anyway in order to upload tracks and waypoints etc so the piece of wire will be in place anyway. I was thinking of having a flying lead to connect in an emergency to my hand held GPS that I keep in the grab bag.
Anyway, as I said - I have very little experience in system redundancy.
I read, in one of the current mags an article on missuse of the GPS plotter that reminded me of an incident that happened to us on a passage from Guernsey to Sant Quay Portrieux. I set a route from St Peter Port which had a long leg to a waypoint north west of the rocks at Ile Harbour. The route then turned about 90 degrees to run down the channel for about 2 miles between the rocks and the mainland before entering the marina. The frightening thing was that I didnt realise that I'd pressed the "waypoint advance" button by mistake way back at Guernsey and the plotter had effectively byepassed the first waypoint NW of Ils Harbour. The effect was that the long leg was wrong and that we would have run over the rocks on a route that was now heading straight towards the harbour entrance. I dont know whether I've made this example very clear but I think it is more serious that the example in the magazine.
As is happened, my Memory-Map software running on the laptop told me that something was wrong - I do all my planning on the PC so I had the correct route and the actual track on laptop and it was obvious what had happened.
So with this example, I believe that you have to be a bit more strategic in putting back up systems in place - an absolutely complete backup must be better even if it isnt connected to the auto pilot etc.
And of course, we are always being told to keep the paper systems going as well.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
a constant readout is much more appropriate - you get instant view
...
GPS mushrooms on stalks - no idea - the origional factory one was on a stalk
...
Your guess - WRONG
[/ QUOTE ]Correct, but if that's the objective, the dials aren't properly installed I'm afraid.
An asymmetrical mount, putting each couple of instruments together, is much more effective in this respect.
That's a bit anal I must admit, in fact no pleasure boat builder do that unless specifically requested.
Same goes for gps, builders know perfectly that it's pointless to raise them, but they do it just to meet the expectations of the large majority of customers.
Second guess: antitheft system?
a constant readout is much more appropriate - you get instant view
...
GPS mushrooms on stalks - no idea - the origional factory one was on a stalk
...
Your guess - WRONG
[/ QUOTE ]Correct, but if that's the objective, the dials aren't properly installed I'm afraid.
An asymmetrical mount, putting each couple of instruments together, is much more effective in this respect.
That's a bit anal I must admit, in fact no pleasure boat builder do that unless specifically requested.
Same goes for gps, builders know perfectly that it's pointless to raise them, but they do it just to meet the expectations of the large majority of customers.
Second guess: antitheft system?
Magnum
RIP
Looking good Mike. Love the clean lines of the G-Series kit.
Did you go for a fish finder/sounder too? If so which one?
Did you go for a fish finder/sounder too? If so which one?
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Second guess: antitheft system?
[/ QUOTE ]
No - still not there.
Second guess: antitheft system?
[/ QUOTE ]
No - still not there.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
I installed an early digital sounder (DSM250 - I think) on the old boat.
We didnt use it much for fish finding but it did give a history type display on the plotters which was quite useful.
When I origionally specified the G Series, I left the sounder out - with the idea that the depth info from the ST60 instruments would provide the GPMs with what they needed for a history type display on the screens. However, I was told that this wouldnt work and we had to have one of the DSMs feeding into the system. There is the new DSM400, I believe, that has all sorts of bells and whistles - and is much more expensive of course. They have also introduced a new cheapie sounder module - DSM30 I think but the difference between that and the older DSM300 is very small so thats what we went for.
The decision was made quite early on whilst she was still in the factory. We had to have the correct transducer fitted before she was launched. In fact she has two transduders - the old one that still feeds into the ST60s and the new one feeding the DSM300.
I suppose that gives us a backup as well - its still connected - just disabled - now if I only knew how to switch it on!!!
We didnt use it much for fish finding but it did give a history type display on the plotters which was quite useful.
When I origionally specified the G Series, I left the sounder out - with the idea that the depth info from the ST60 instruments would provide the GPMs with what they needed for a history type display on the screens. However, I was told that this wouldnt work and we had to have one of the DSMs feeding into the system. There is the new DSM400, I believe, that has all sorts of bells and whistles - and is much more expensive of course. They have also introduced a new cheapie sounder module - DSM30 I think but the difference between that and the older DSM300 is very small so thats what we went for.
The decision was made quite early on whilst she was still in the factory. We had to have the correct transducer fitted before she was launched. In fact she has two transduders - the old one that still feeds into the ST60s and the new one feeding the DSM300.
I suppose that gives us a backup as well - its still connected - just disabled - now if I only knew how to switch it on!!!
epervier
Well-Known Member
Mike, again, thank you for sharing with us,
very interesting and very impressive.
very interesting and very impressive.
longjohnsilver
Well-Known Member
That's one heck of a lot of electronics! Looks very impresive.
Is it a Loran aeriel?
Is it a Loran aeriel?
MapisM
Well-Known Member
I'm tempted to give up...
...you aren't thinking to sell wireless connection in your marina, are you? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
...you aren't thinking to sell wireless connection in your marina, are you? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
WiFI antenna?
[2068]
...
I'm not a marine electronics engineer, but in IT land, most "resiliant" solutions are not totally duplicated, and end up being a compromise based on cost / benefit - I start by trying to eliminate single points of failure for things that are MOST likely to fail - e.g. disks, databases, directories.
It's a matter of thinking through the most likely failure scenarios, and deciding if you are happy with what you will be left with. In my much smaller boat, an E80 with Radar is backed up by a Garmin 276C with 6 hours of battery life, which I'm happy with, despite the fact I would lose the radar if the E80 went.
In your case, it's not so simple. I don't see many boats with two scanners /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif, but having another GPS receiver for the PC system might be useful if the NMEA bus were to go South for some reason.
dv.
It's a matter of thinking through the most likely failure scenarios, and deciding if you are happy with what you will be left with. In my much smaller boat, an E80 with Radar is backed up by a Garmin 276C with 6 hours of battery life, which I'm happy with, despite the fact I would lose the radar if the E80 went.
In your case, it's not so simple. I don't see many boats with two scanners /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif, but having another GPS receiver for the PC system might be useful if the NMEA bus were to go South for some reason.
dv.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Very sensible thoughts.
I agree.
Its too easy to look too deeply into this when, for example, a cheap GPS in the grap bag solves many issues.
I agree.
Its too easy to look too deeply into this when, for example, a cheap GPS in the grap bag solves many issues.
oceanfroggie
Well-Known Member
For redundancy we have a Raymarine plotter/radar with it's own gps antenna running off the port battery, and a completely separate Garmin plotter inc separate antenna running off the starboard battery, and a Garmin 276C with it's own internal battery as the portable backup and can run of the 12v socket, but like yours will run for between 6 and 12hrs depending on brightness, also a handheld VHF in the grab bag in case the main VHF packs in.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Yep agreed - see above.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Is it a Loran aeriel?
[/ QUOTE ]
Nop - not Loran but I believe this is making a bit of a comeback.
GPS is still the future though IMO
Is it a Loran aeriel?
[/ QUOTE ]
Nop - not Loran but I believe this is making a bit of a comeback.
GPS is still the future though IMO
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
WiFI antenna?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ahh - finally - well done.
MapisM
I think you would have got there in the end - you were nearly there on the last post.
Anyway, Rick and Nick seemed to have got it much earlier.
Rick - mainly cos I copied what he has done.
I've only bench tested the hardware so I havent yet had it all working but the scheme is this:-
Wifi bridge to local internet service using this antenna (Rick maybe you can comment on its performance).
The bridge then connects to a Linksys router which then feeds an internal WiFi service throughout the boat. I'm not a great lover of Wifi so a wired LAN is also installed in the boat connecting to the main PC which in turn feeds all the displays and TVs on the boat. I use a long distance cordless keyboard and and "air mouse" which will enable the PC to be controlled anywhere on the boat.
I also expect to connect IP telephones into the "on board" LAN and when in port or anywhere with an external WiFi service these phones will "register" into my home Asterisk telephone exchange back here in Devon. Anyone phoning my home or even ringing my front doorbell will get redirected to the boat - anywhere in the world whenever the boat is connected to the internet. I'm thinking that a GSM interface might also be integrated for thos times when WiFi isnt available.
This is probably far too complicated to be practicable but we'll have to see how it all "pans out". The bit at home is all working well at the moment though.
WiFI antenna?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ahh - finally - well done.
MapisM
I think you would have got there in the end - you were nearly there on the last post.
Anyway, Rick and Nick seemed to have got it much earlier.
Rick - mainly cos I copied what he has done.
I've only bench tested the hardware so I havent yet had it all working but the scheme is this:-
Wifi bridge to local internet service using this antenna (Rick maybe you can comment on its performance).
The bridge then connects to a Linksys router which then feeds an internal WiFi service throughout the boat. I'm not a great lover of Wifi so a wired LAN is also installed in the boat connecting to the main PC which in turn feeds all the displays and TVs on the boat. I use a long distance cordless keyboard and and "air mouse" which will enable the PC to be controlled anywhere on the boat.
I also expect to connect IP telephones into the "on board" LAN and when in port or anywhere with an external WiFi service these phones will "register" into my home Asterisk telephone exchange back here in Devon. Anyone phoning my home or even ringing my front doorbell will get redirected to the boat - anywhere in the world whenever the boat is connected to the internet. I'm thinking that a GSM interface might also be integrated for thos times when WiFi isnt available.
This is probably far too complicated to be practicable but we'll have to see how it all "pans out". The bit at home is all working well at the moment though.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Funny, you know what, that's the first thing which popped to my mind, 'cause I remembered that you already mentioned having also wireless connection, besides cat6 cables. But of course you wouldn't have needed an external aerial for that, an in fact your wifi router is placed inside somewhere I guess.
For the ISP connection bit, I assumed that what you were going to use a mobile phone/modem (not just a GSM for sure, btw, but rather an UMTS/HSDPA). That's why in my last post I joked about whether you wanted to become also a service provider, because I thought that an external antenna would only have made sense to make your connection available to others, not the other way round.
Now I'm curious about the reasons for your choice.
Nowadays for 20 eur/month you can get flat high speed connection wherever there is UMTS coverage, which means pretty much everywhere along the coast, at least here in the med, including when anchored (though not when cruising offshore, of course).
What is the point in using the marina services?
For the ISP connection bit, I assumed that what you were going to use a mobile phone/modem (not just a GSM for sure, btw, but rather an UMTS/HSDPA). That's why in my last post I joked about whether you wanted to become also a service provider, because I thought that an external antenna would only have made sense to make your connection available to others, not the other way round.
Now I'm curious about the reasons for your choice.
Nowadays for 20 eur/month you can get flat high speed connection wherever there is UMTS coverage, which means pretty much everywhere along the coast, at least here in the med, including when anchored (though not when cruising offshore, of course).
What is the point in using the marina services?